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Llc Looking At The Argument Itself

The more I read on the LLC debate the more it seems like the "debate" over Evolution. (hear me out!)

Argument from Pro LLC People: (anti-"evolutionists")
- Sure it makes sense in theory but I haven't seen any chips degrade from LLC. I know all the LN2 people use it for extreme benching so should enable it for my 24/7 rig... and plus <insert a million anecdotal examples here including your 24/7 stable rig running for 2 years with LLC on and no problems!>

Argument from Anti LLC People: ("evolutionists")
- Intel says it degrades the CPU.
- Physics and electrical engineering make the case for instantaneous scarcely detectable voltage spikes that exceed Vcc. (Is attempting to capture these spikes with an oscilloscope even a reasonable expectation?)
- The mod wasn't a design enhancement but a marketing gimmick from Motherboard Manufacturers done in an attempt to satisfy a niche market demand where previous various hard mods were used to achieve the same results.

My position:
You might think that in order to "show someone" the damaging effects of LLC it would require two identical systems running side by side for years, the only difference being LLC enabled/disabled. ...that wouldn't really do it though would it? Even with all else being equal, its just a 50/50 shot? It would require 10/20/30 (the more the better!) Identical Systems all running side by side for a period of years all receiving the same perfectly clean power (double blind style where you don't know which PC's have LLC enabled until they die and you "reveal it"). Only when these perfectly identical PC's begin failing would we be able to establish a solid trend.

Problems with this are obvious...
- No two PC systems are exactly the same.
- Nobody is going to pay for the electric bill for such a test.
- No accurate data can be obtained from dispersed anonymous posters on internet forums as a substitute.

So I look at the Pro-LLC people with an odd look when they ask for some tangible "show me" proof in the same way I look at anti-"evolutionists" people when they ask for proof. You're asking for something which cannot be simply handed to you or pointed to. It takes masses of compiled pieces of evidence to reveal the trend for a process that is outside the scope of limited human perception (Billions of years, or a near instantaneous voltage spike) but you have the science there pointing you toward the truth.

So LLC probably does do some damage to your CPU over time... how much time does it take to degrade? No idea! Maybe the damage its mostly minimized or eliminated by motherboard manufacturers now... maybe it does so little damage that CPU degradation isn't a concern unless you plan on running that chip for a decade?

Its like the question of smoking. How much time does a person lose at the end of their life because they smoked cigarettes? Maybe a lot... maybe none depending on the "chip."

Not that I'm any kind of authority on the subject, I'm just someone who enjoys overclocking and has done a bit of reading on the subject... but its a safe bet in my opinion is to go with the advice from the people who designed those processors we're all fond of overclocking. For smart 24/7 overclocks you should learn the Vcc for your chip and never exceed that value @ load (approaching it and maybe going slightly beyond is okay at Idle). Find an OC you're happy with and stay as far away from Vcc as you can with LLC Off.

In all likelihood you're still going to hit a temp ceiling before you reach that Vcc.

Quote:
****Disclaimer****
No offense intended to the Pro-LLC people. I'm not comparing your intelligence to evolutionists or smokers so please don't be insulted. Don't send me PM's, don't cry and report this post... I'm only drawing the comparison as an illustration of why the argument as it stands isn't even being framed correctly because the two camps are coming from radically different perspectives.
I also should disclose that I'm in the Anti-LLC camp.

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