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post #61 of 68 Old 04-20-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by shilka View Post


80 plus has nothing to do with quality

Why is it bad? well for many reason first off its a cheap and old design which is group regulated, what does group regulated mean it means the 12v 5v and 3,3v rails are treated as a group and not regulated on their own this means that voltage regulation will suck.

Group regulated was something you did back in the good old days you almost dont see it anymore because today its not very good and you dont save that much money by doing it so its not worth doing.
Crappy voltage regulated means the system wont run very stable as the power goes up and down like a rollercoaster you do not want that

That is why the NEX650G/750G is not very good and should be avoided at all costs. It might look good on paper EVGA fully modular and gold rated, But those things have nothing to do with voltage regulation or build quality

 

That's not voltage regulation. Perfect voltage regulation would result in the +12V rail being precisely 12.00V, the +3.3V being precisely 3.30V, and the +5V being precisely +5.00V. Poor voltage regulation could result in the voltages not being exactly 12, 3.3 or 5V.

 

What you're talking about is "ripple": ripple is the constant up and down of the voltage that can only be seen by special equipment, like an oscillator because that's precisely what ripple is: voltage oscillation, up and down above and below wherever the voltage is being regulated to. Software will never show it because software will never have a fast enough polling rate. So, ripple is kind of like the vibration of the voltage, in a sense. It's like plucking a guitar string: when you pluck it hard, it has a HUGE ripple for a while and then it gradually gets less and less and less and less. With voltage, ripple is constantly occurring.

 

Think about the word "ripple" though: When do we usually use that word? To describe the surface of water when it has a bunch of tiny "waves" in it. So, using water as an analogy, ripple is the rippling of the surface of the water. We've all seen that. Voltage regulation is like the regulation of the level of that water. Let's say that you have a bucket with just one line drawn on the side. Let's say that you also have a hole at the bottom and therefore you need to keep pouring water into this bucket constantly. So, you have water going in, and water exiting, constantly. Well, if your water level regulation is good, then you should be able to keep the level of that water at that line - or pretty close to it. If your water level regulation sucks, then, yeah, you're NOT going to be doing a good job of keeping it there. Again, ripple is the rippling of the surface of that water: it ripples up and down at whatever level the water happens to be regulated at. Now, with this illustration though, the ripple is controlled by the incoming water. This is where I fall apart because I don't know if that is similar to what causes ripple in a PSU's output.

 

So, if you have poor voltage regulation and high ripple, then you have a serious problem - you have a PSU that should be avoided at all costs. If you have poor voltage regulation but extremely low ripple, then how big of a problem that is depends on how well the voltage is being regulated. If you have excellent, super-tight voltage regulation but high ripple, then you have a problem there too. I mean, how can you keep your system stable if the power that it's receiving is unstable? This is especially true when overclocking. When overclocking, you want your computer being powered by a PSU that has good voltage regulation and very low ripple. This will result in easier overclocking, meaning that your PSU will not be a part of the equation when considering what the problem is whenever you encounter problems.

 

I hope that this makes sense. If any of it doesn't, then please have me clarify it.

 

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Originally Posted by Dctr View Post


Shilka, if you don't mind I would like to ask you a question, I think it might be my PSU. I was just doing some general web browsing earlier on, OCN and a few other tabs open and Steam too in the background, and suddenly the system just locked up. Numlock wouldn't respond so nothing else would and I ended up having to power off and the back on again. Do you think it might be power supply related? My power supply is an Antec HCG-520M. Thanks.

 

So, kind of continuing what I was saying, I sincerely and highly doubt that it's your PSU. That's a very solid PSU. What you basically have is a 520W SeaSonic M12II. I think the problem is either caused by overclocking, or if you have everything at stock, then your CPU's core voltage could be just a hair too low for idle and low-load situations. That's usually caused by the voltage being in Offset mode. So, if your idle voltage is like 0.9V or less, or like 1.0V, then that means your voltage is in Offset mode. So, your job would be to find a way to increase the idle and low-load voltage. One of the easiest ways to do that is by setting the Load-Line Calibration to either High or Ultra High and disabling the C3 and C6 states. You can also manually set the voltage in Offset Mode or in Manual Mode, but that takes more time and the end result from the user-experience standpoint would essentially be the same.


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post #62 of 68 Old 04-20-2014, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

That's not voltage regulation. Perfect voltage regulation would result in the +12V rail being precisely 12.00V, the +3.3V being precisely 3.30V, and the +5V being precisely +5.00V. Poor voltage regulation could result in the voltages not being exactly 12, 3.3 or 5V.

What you're talking about is "ripple": ripple is the constant up and down of the voltage that can only be seen by special equipment, like an oscillator because that's precisely what ripple is: voltage oscillation, up and down above and below wherever the voltage is being regulated to. Software will never show it because software will never have a fast enough polling rate. So, ripple is kind of like the vibration of the voltage, in a sense. It's like plucking a guitar string: when you pluck it hard, it has a HUGE ripple for a while and then it gradually gets less and less and less and less. With voltage, ripple is constantly occurring.

Think about the word "ripple" though: When do we usually use that word? To describe the surface of water when it has a bunch of tiny "waves" in it. So, using water as an analogy, ripple is the rippling of the surface of the water. We've all seen that. Voltage regulation is like the regulation of the level of that water. Let's say that you have a bucket with just one line drawn on the side. Let's say that you also have a hole at the bottom and therefore you need to keep pouring water into this bucket constantly. So, you have water going in, and water exiting, constantly. Well, if your water level regulation is good, then you should be able to keep the level of that water at that line - or pretty close to it. If your water level regulation sucks, then, yeah, you're NOT going to be doing a good job of keeping it there. Again, ripple is the rippling of the surface of that water: it ripples up and down at whatever level the water happens to be regulated at. Now, with this illustration though, the ripple is controlled by the incoming water. This is where I fall apart because I don't know if that is similar to what causes ripple in a PSU's output.

So, if you have poor voltage regulation and high ripple, then you have a serious problem - you have a PSU that should be avoided at all costs. If you have poor voltage regulation but extremely low ripple, then how big of a problem that is depends on how well the voltage is being regulated. If you have excellent, super-tight voltage regulation but high ripple, then you have a problem there too. I mean, how can you keep your system stable if the power that it's receiving is unstable? This is especially true when overclocking. When overclocking, you want your computer being powered by a PSU that has good voltage regulation and very low ripple. This will result in easier overclocking, meaning that your PSU will not be a part of the equation when considering what the problem is whenever you encounter problems.

I hope that this makes sense. If any of it doesn't, then please have me clarify it.


So, kind of continuing what I was saying, I sincerely and highly doubt that it's your PSU. That's a very solid PSU. What you basically have is a 520W SeaSonic M12II. I think the problem is either caused by overclocking, or if you have everything at stock, then your CPU's core voltage could be just a hair too low for idle and low-load situations. That's usually caused by the voltage being in Offset mode. So, if your idle voltage is like 0.9V or less, or like 1.0V, then that means your voltage is in Offset mode. So, your job would be to find a way to increase the idle and low-load voltage. One of the easiest ways to do that is by setting the Load-Line Calibration to either High or Ultra High and disabling the C3 and C6 states. You can also manually set the voltage in Offset Mode or in Manual Mode, but that takes more time and the end result from the user-experience standpoint would essentially be the same.
Blah yes i got ripple and voltage regulation backwards i was so tired when i posted that so thats why

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post #63 of 68 Old 04-20-2014, 11:07 AM
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I'd have thought group regulation would result in bad voltage regulation, so voltages staying persistently off their ideal marks, when the PSU is crossloaded. Sure, you can make a group regulated system have good ripple suppression, but it doesn't hide the fact that the 3.3v rail goes up to 3.5 when you start taxing the 12volt...
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post #64 of 68 Old 04-20-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shilka View Post


Blah yes i got ripple and voltage regulation backwards i was so tired when i posted that so thats why

 

It's all good though because look at what it made me post for everyone. hehehe

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GorbazTheDragon View Post

I'd have thought group regulation would result in bad voltage regulation, so voltages staying persistently off their ideal marks, when the PSU is crossloaded. Sure, you can make a group regulated system have good ripple suppression, but it doesn't hide the fact that the 3.3v rail goes up to 3.5 when you start taxing the 12volt...

 

Yeah, group regulation is beautiful, isn't it? lol


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post #65 of 68 Old 04-20-2014, 11:10 AM
 
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Group regulation is old school, only PSU i have seen that newer then 2-3 years that has it is the NZXT HALE 82 V2

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post #66 of 68 Old 04-20-2014, 11:12 AM
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Yeah, group regulation is beautiful, isn't it? lol

I didn't really know anything about PSUs when I joined the forum... But one thing I could deduce was group regulation was bad... 3 separate voltages with variable loads and one controller to regulate them? Sounds like a recipe for disaster, probably a lot worse than it actually is.

I'd compare it to driving 3 remote controlled cars with one remote... And then putting them to race around different tracks.
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post #67 of 68 Old 04-20-2014, 04:50 PM
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THIS is the M5A97 EVO R2.0:



Same price as Saberkitty in the states and we can't even buy it from a normal vendor.

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post #68 of 68 Old 04-20-2014, 11:16 PM
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