[TPU] Corsair Obsidian 350D M-ATX Chassis Pictured - Page 13 - Overclock.net

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post #121 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

Why you guys want inverted Micro ATX, I don't know. It doesn't offer any potential benefit that I can see. And the TJ08-E (a great little case) is one of the only ones on the market - so why should we focus on that? The standard ATX layout works well for a reason - we've experimented with it a bit and have some new form factors we're playing with - but for Micro ATX, there was no solid reason to go inverse. It didn't offer any performance or usability benefits. And we tried it, too, in prototypes. Heck, turn the 350D upside down if you want. It'll give you identical cooling numbers.

I just like inverted better. I like a side window or to be able to see the internals of the machine, and I have a weird dislike bordering on phobia of things encroaching on my space from the right side (I cannot go bowling in a lane with the ball return on my right, for example) so if I want it on my desk I like it to be on the left. Is it weird? Yes. But I have a PS07 because of it. I would literally pay $300 for this case but reversed, but I know it will never be made because 99.999% of people just don't care.

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post #122 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 06:58 PM
 
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I don't see the point in inverted ATX either. I had a TJ08-e awhile ago, its a trade off where you get superior CPU cooling at the expense of GPU cooling. With CPUs getting less power hungry not sure they need the extra help.
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post #123 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

$99 for Micro ATX IS a premium price point. Micro ATX cases are usually closer to $30-$50, with some in the $70 range. Only a small handful are $150 or whatever.

It's basic math. If you assume that Micro ATX is, let's say, 1/10th the number of sales as standard ATX, then we need to hit the meat of the market instead of the fringes.

Let's say that Standard ATX sells 500,000 cases a month to enthusiasts. Most of those are <$100. Let's say 50%. Then another 40% are between $100-$200. Then the last 10% are $200+. Let's just pretend those are the numbers.

If Micro ATX is 50,000 cases a month to enthusiasts, and most of those are <$70. Let's say that same 50%. Then another 40% between $70-$100. And then the last 10% is $100+.

So the TAM (Total Available Market) for $200+ ATX cases is 50,000 units a month, whereas the TAM for $100+ Micro ATX cases is 5,000 units a month.

But if I go in the sweet spot, the TAM for Standard ATX $100-$200 cases is 200,000 units a month, and for Micro ATX $70-$100 is 20,000 units a month. It just makes a lot more sense to target the "sweet spot" first on Micro ATX.

With Standard ATX we could focus on the extremes first, with 800D, because we knew that even if we only got 10% market share the numbers still made sense. With Micro ATX 10% market share of a tiny fringe segment just isn't big enough to justify that kind of approach.
I think the 350D is pretty good build quality. It's built very similar to the way the 650D was built and is quite fun to build in, especially compared to other Micro ATX cases.

Why you guys want inverted Micro ATX, I don't know. It doesn't offer any potential benefit that I can see. And the TJ08-E (a great little case) is one of the only ones on the market - so why should we focus on that? The standard ATX layout works well for a reason - we've experimented with it a bit and have some new form factors we're playing with - but for Micro ATX, there was no solid reason to go inverse. It didn't offer any performance or usability benefits. And we tried it, too, in prototypes. Heck, turn the 350D upside down if you want. It'll give you identical cooling numbers.

Any work on something smaller then 900D but 900D features? Something more 800D size?

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post #124 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Any work on something smaller then 900D but 900D features? Something more 800D size?

I can't comment on unannounced parts.

But there are a lot of numbers between 350 and 900.
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post #125 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 07:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
$99 for Micro ATX IS a premium price point. Micro ATX cases are usually closer to $30-$50, with some in the $70 range. Only a small handful are $150 or whatever.

It's basic math. If you assume that Micro ATX is, let's say, 1/10th the number of sales as standard ATX, then we need to hit the meat of the market instead of the fringes.

Let's say that Standard ATX sells 500,000 cases a month to enthusiasts. Most of those are <$100. Let's say 50%. Then another 40% are between $100-$200. Then the last 10% are $200+. Let's just pretend those are the numbers.

If Micro ATX is 50,000 cases a month to enthusiasts, and most of those are <$70. Let's say that same 50%. Then another 40% between $70-$100. And then the last 10% is $100+.

So the TAM (Total Available Market) for $200+ ATX cases is 50,000 units a month, whereas the TAM for $100+ Micro ATX cases is 5,000 units a month.

But if I go in the sweet spot, the TAM for Standard ATX $100-$200 cases is 200,000 units a month, and for Micro ATX $70-$100 is 20,000 units a month. It just makes a lot more sense to target the "sweet spot" first on Micro ATX.

With Standard ATX we could focus on the extremes first, with 800D, because we knew that even if we only got 10% market share the numbers still made sense. With Micro ATX 10% market share of a tiny fringe segment just isn't big enough to justify that kind of approach.
I think the 350D is pretty good build quality. It's built very similar to the way the 650D was built and is quite fun to build in, especially compared to other Micro ATX cases.

Why you guys want inverted Micro ATX, I don't know. It doesn't offer any potential benefit that I can see. And the TJ08-E (a great little case) is one of the only ones on the market - so why should we focus on that? The standard ATX layout works well for a reason - we've experimented with it a bit and have some new form factors we're playing with - but for Micro ATX, there was no solid reason to go inverse. It didn't offer any performance or usability benefits. And we tried it, too, in prototypes. Heck, turn the 350D upside down if you want. It'll give you identical cooling numbers
.

I've only been on this forum for a short time, but these types are responses are why I have grown to really respect you. Very well thought out and honest responses, without dumbing it down. I appreciate these types of responses to our questions and concerns.

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post #126 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

$99 for Micro ATX IS a premium price point. Micro ATX cases are usually closer to $30-$50, with some in the $70 range. Only a small handful are $150 or whatever.

It's basic math. If you assume that Micro ATX is, let's say, 1/10th the number of sales as standard ATX, then we need to hit the meat of the market instead of the fringes.

Let's say that Standard ATX sells 500,000 cases a month to enthusiasts. Most of those are <$100. Let's say 50%. Then another 40% are between $100-$200. Then the last 10% are $200+. Let's just pretend those are the numbers.

If Micro ATX is 50,000 cases a month to enthusiasts, and most of those are <$70. Let's say that same 50%. Then another 40% between $70-$100. And then the last 10% is $100+.

So the TAM (Total Available Market) for $200+ ATX cases is 50,000 units a month, whereas the TAM for $100+ Micro ATX cases is 5,000 units a month.

But if I go in the sweet spot, the TAM for Standard ATX $100-$200 cases is 200,000 units a month, and for Micro ATX $70-$100 is 20,000 units a month. It just makes a lot more sense to target the "sweet spot" first on Micro ATX.

With Standard ATX we could focus on the extremes first, with 800D, because we knew that even if we only got 10% market share the numbers still made sense. With Micro ATX 10% market share of a tiny fringe segment just isn't big enough to justify that kind of approach.
I think the 350D is pretty good build quality. It's built very similar to the way the 650D was built and is quite fun to build in, especially compared to other Micro ATX cases.

Why you guys want inverted Micro ATX, I don't know. It doesn't offer any potential benefit that I can see. And the TJ08-E (a great little case) is one of the only ones on the market - so why should we focus on that? The standard ATX layout works well for a reason - we've experimented with it a bit and have some new form factors we're playing with - but for Micro ATX, there was no solid reason to go inverse. It didn't offer any performance or usability benefits. And we tried it, too, in prototypes. Heck, turn the 350D upside down if you want. It'll give you identical cooling numbers.


Thank you, I understand you guys still have to make money right, but does it really cost that much to add that top fan grill from the 900D. Also why do you guys not tier things out so everyone gets what they want. What I mean by tier is that a 350D T1 and it would be the one you have here and the 350D T2 and it would be a little more and would cater to the other people with other features and loot a bit different. I know it would be a small percent you would be selling to but have you guys ever thought of doing this? Would there be any profits ?
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post #127 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 07:40 PM
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There comes a point where you can have too much product variation.
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post #128 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

I can't comment on unannounced parts.

But there are a lot of numbers between 350 and 900.

How many rads will fit in the 350d?
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post #129 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsairGeorge View Post

*snip of good explanation*

Why you guys want inverted Micro ATX, I don't know. It doesn't offer any potential benefit that I can see. And the TJ08-E (a great little case) is one of the only ones on the market - so why should we focus on that? The standard ATX layout works well for a reason - we've experimented with it a bit and have some new form factors we're playing with - but for Micro ATX, there was no solid reason to go inverse. It didn't offer any performance or usability benefits. And we tried it, too, in prototypes. Heck, turn the 350D upside down if you want. It'll give you identical cooling numbers.

I loled. smile.gif

People on this forum have some weird inverted/sideways ATX fetishes >.>
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Originally Posted by oicwutudidthar View Post

How many rads will fit in the 350d?

supposedly one on top and one on front , dual fan rads
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Room for two 240mm radiators (top, front)
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Originally Posted by GoldenTree View Post

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Thank you, I understand you guys still have to make money right, but does it really cost that much to add that top fan grill from the 900D. Also why do you guys not tier things out so everyone gets what they want. What I mean by tier is that a 350D T1 and it would be the one you have here and the 350D T2 and it would be a little more and would cater to the other people with other features and loot a bit different. I know it would be a small percent you would be selling to but have you guys ever thought of doing this? Would there be any profits ?

Not worth the tooling cost to have so many variations, although they should have a fan filter up top. If it bothers you that much, drop $20 on a fan grille from Silverstone or Demciflex. http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=339&area=en
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16884/ffi-121/DEMCiflex_Dual_140mm_Magnetic_Dust_Fan_Filter_-_Dual_Radiator_or_Fans_-_Steel_Aluminum_Plastic_Chassis.html
www.frozencpu.com/products/11723/ffi-51/DEMCiflex_Dual_120mm_Magnetic_Dust_Fan_Filter_-_Dual_Radiator_or_Fans_-_Steel_Aluminum_Plastic_Chassis.html
$7 option http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16611/ffi-111/2_x_120mm_Ultra_Thin_Flexible_Fan_Dust_Filter_017mm_Thick.html

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post #130 of 914 Old 04-16-2013, 08:07 PM
 
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