[Reddit] RX 480 fails PCI-E specification - Page 65 - Overclock.net

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post #641 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Here's the link you're looking for:

https://www.twitch.tv/buildzoid/v/75850933

Go to the 54 mnute mark to see the that:

3 of the 6 pin grounds are together, no center sense pin isolated - the top 3 VRMs run to the 6 pin; the bottom 3 VRMs run to the PCI-e fingers. They are on separate circuits and not connected, this is the issue.
He beat me to it anyways tkns for providing the link XD
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post #642 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:28 PM
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Everything should be fine unless you're hard overclocking or if other pci lanes are loaded....


NVIDIA > AMD People told me a 7970 to a 770 would be a side grade but after seeing the difference here I believe a 660 wold have been an upgrade over the 7970 . So much smoother no more dropped frames or stutter.
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post #643 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

That's the power of negative influence. People that have problem want to be loud bout this. Could also be Nvidia agents at work.

Unfortunate mind of the masses. Just like when the 970 3.5 GB + 0.5 GB memory was an issue. All of a sudden you see a spike of new accounts come up.

I still don't understand why the reference board was designed that way though. All they needed to do was change a few things here and there on it and it would not have this issue. Still, it is an issue in all reference boards which does not meet specs, which we all have to admit.

I had high hopes for this card (reference is always cheaper) since I do plan to have 2 builds for my wife and daughter ( I gave them a 5770 and a 7950 in their old builds). I guess I just have to wait for the AIB partners to come up with better powered delivery designs. Hopefully it's only a few bucks more.

I feel bad for AMD on this because as consumers we do need AMD to succeed with this. Now they just shoot themselves in the foot (not because of the card), because of the negative press which the flock will over hype. The AIB cards I think will be awesome and I will definitely support AMD there but come on why such a crap design on the reference (this is probably the worst ref design they've ever made).
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post #644 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

@Bauxno
Could you please provide a link to this stream of builzoid? I haven't found any results in google for it.

Sounds very interesting.

Here's the link you're looking for:

https://www.twitch.tv/buildzoid/v/75850933

Go to the 54 mnute mark to see the that:
3 of the 6 pin grounds are together, no center sense pin isolated - the top 3 VRMs run to the 6 pin; the bottom 3 VRMs run to the PCI-e fingers. They are on separate circuits and not connected, this is the issue.

aside from 3:3 vrms - those are not only non issues but actually what the SPECS tell you to do;

since i guess you missed my earlier post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebirdybird View Post

i'd thought i create this account to post some cool information
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
so on the amd discord, a person found out how to actually fix this problem.

so first off, the cause of the problem which i will link in these images from the amd discord.

http://i.imgur.com/7s12VqC.png

http://i.imgur.com/g3QPxy0.png

http://i.imgur.com/amSNLm2.png

http://i.imgur.com/Gekq192.png
as you can see in these 4 images, the 6 pin is non-compliant due to the way the pcb is designed. usually there are 2 grounds + 1 ground that is not connected to the other two. this is to check whether the 6 pin is hooked up to the card. however for the rx 480, all three grounds are connected to another another, and as you can see, one poster says that it'll require a new pcb.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
now in image 2, basically the pcie express and the 6 pin also power the vcore, and also the person goes on to state that the pcie also powers the vram. and to confirm that in image three, he says to check out actually hardcore on twitch as his source to confirm the problem. and from what he can tell, amd also did not bridge the pcie power and the 6 pin power.

lastly, in image 4, 3 vrms - powered by the 6 pin - 3 vrms powered by the pcie express.

now, there is a fix to the whole thing, besides the amd driver update next week.

so take a look at image 5.

http://imgur.com/YF9LpZP

note the red text.

lastly, image 6, the fix to this

http://i.imgur.com/5Zzt1zE.png

the solution to fix the whole problem, is you solder the pins on the left, to bridge the pcie express 12v rail, and the 6 pin rail. then, you desolder the pcie power rails to the vrms. and he says, by doing that, the pcie express should stay below 60 watts at average. and he does warn at the end, that if you don't know what you're doing, don't try it. but anyways, i thought i'd share some cool information in my first post from the people in the amd discord, hope you enjoy.

all the grounds being connected is pci-sig compliant:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
and in a way it's irrelevant, what matters is the second sense pin (#6) on an 8 pin connector to determine that 150 watts is available from the connector.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

also someone mentioned they didn't bridge the pci-e and the 6 pin connector. well if they did THEN the card would be non compliant.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
since both power sources are to be kept separately.

moral of the story:

don't trust chat rooms.


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post #645 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

aside from 3:3 vrms - those are not only non issues but actually what the SPECS tell you to do;

since i guess you missed my earlier post.
I did see your post but what I meant with my post is the fact that they really botched the way the reference card was built which literally does not follow the specs across the board.
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post #646 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:50 PM
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So many people dismissing this as nothing, and so many acting like it's doomsday..

For any of the guests that are completely confused. - Don't buy the reference if you want more performance than stock gives, even though you'll still probably be perfectly fine OC'ing. The reference cooler is like usual from AMD, pretty poor. Rather wait a bit for the AIB versions, they'll give far better cooling and won't have any of these "issues".

If you already have one don't panic, even though we have a lot of "concerned" websites churning out articles every hour, there really isn't anything to worry about if you don't act like a fool with a reference card that has a single 6 pin. I've done some (admittedly) irresponsible things with custom bios, etc., and never fried my board yet... touch wood. AMD are also releasing a software update next week, just under-volt it yourself if you're concerned right now.

I've also seen a lot of people on social media, Youtube, etc., recommending the 970 instead.. For goodness sake whatever you do, don't do that.. If you don't want AMD then rather wait for the 1060, the 970 is going to be left in the dust before long, especially when most tripple-A's are moving to DX12 and Vulkan.

The 970's future competition is going to be the 380X.. redface.gif Total war just got patched to DX12:


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post #647 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

aside from 3:3 vrms - those are not only non issues but actually what the SPECS tell you to do;

since i guess you missed my earlier post.

I did see your post but what I meant with my post is the fact that they really botched the way the reference card was built which literally does not follow the specs across the board.

pardon?

the sense pin is supposed to be grounded; whether its shorted to another does not matter.

the pci-e slot and the 6 pin are suppose to be treated as separate.

so how is it non compliant to PCI-SIG?

the vrms is a boo boo but really, the way those VRMs are built just 3 can handle a lot more than the ~75+ watts the 6 pin is providing.


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post #648 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

aside from 3:3 vrms - those are not only non issues but actually what the SPECS tell you to do;

since i guess you missed my earlier post.
May I ask what is non compilant?

If I understand what it mean then when you power up a gpu the 6/8 pin conector and the pci-e must never work together as one large poll of watt to be used for the gpu as it see fit?
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post #649 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

You got this wrong.
The cards in the the MSI vortex are MXM based cards. I don't know exactly what type the 970M are, but they are either:

MXM-III (HE)
82mm 100mm 230(232) I, II, III, HE II, III, HE 75W 40 mm²

MXM-B
82mm 105mm A, B A, B 200W 256-bit


source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module

TL,DR - This is not comparable to a standard PCI-Express SLOT. They are built for notebooks and have one

EDIT:
The MXM type of the 970M is the MXM 3.0B, but the card is rated for 81W TDP.

MXM 3.0B can handle up to 120W easily and possibly more than that. 780M was a 110W card, while 880M was a scorching 120W card, and I've never once heard anybody who fried their mobo or MXM slot due to using either GPUs.

IIRC there actually no official electrical specifications for MXM 3.0B (at least none publicly available), but someone in the know once told me the traces are spec'd up to 200W. Can't verify one way or the other so grain of salt as usual.

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post #650 of 1129 Old 07-02-2016, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

pardon?

the sense pin is supposed to be grounded; whether its shorted to another does not matter.

the pci-e slot and the 6 pin are suppose to be treated as separate.

so how is it non compliant to PCI-SIG?

the vrms is a boo boo but really, the way those VRMs are built just 3 can handle a lot more than the ~75+ watts the 6 pin is providing.

Honest question here (I'm not trying to be rude or anything), so are you refuting the findings on the video why the pci-e draws more than it should? Why does it draw more than 2.5 amps on the pci-e? Literally because of the VRMS?
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