Ubuntu... garbage or not? - Page 15 - Overclock.net

View Poll Results: Is Ubuntu junk?
Yes 61 31.44%
No 133 68.56%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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post #141 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasa123 View Post

I run both Ubuntu and Peppermint on my netbook, along with W7 and Mint on my laptop. Personally, I like using Mint and Peppermint more than I do Ubuntu, simply because of the new Unity layout (which is a big turn off for a lot of people, apparently). I'm used to a traditional gui layout, I guess. Also, Ubuntu comes pre-loaded with a lot of software, which could be a good thing if you're just getting into the whole Linux thing, otherwise it'll probably annoy you and slow down your system unnecessarily. Just my 2cents.gif

OH Gawd here we go again. It will never cease to amaze me that people who would never consider posting medical opinion in a forum of doctors will nonetheless feel compelled to chime in on a Linux forum when all they really know is Windows. Now don't take me wrongly. If what you want is a works-out-of-the-box (mostly) that doesn't require very much of a learning curve ( especially since most here have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours learning Windows over the years ) then fine! If you want your PC to be an appliance that you have no need nor desire to understand, fine! Just why do people who use the most popular OpSys on the planet feel compelled to try to tell us that prefer to know our systems how unmanageable or otherwise sucky Linux is?

Now the above quoted post, which I feel pretty certain was a basically honest attempt by a person at least brave enough to dabble outside Windows (but who is likely still at the stage of trying to make it be Free Windows) and was an attempt to be fair. However, he stepped over the line into the Twilight Zone and perhaps inadvertently is perpetuating a complete falsehood. Linux, unlike Windows (and for many reasons some of which are actually designed that way on purpose in Windows to make it more "user-friendly" and convenient) DOES NOT SLOW DOWN IN DIRECT PROPORTION TO INSTALLED APPLICATIONS. It does not "prefetch" nor depend on the centralization (witness The Registry) or any of the other "services" that are assigned resources just in case someone might want to use them sometime.

The only resource that Linux applications, not in use, take up is hard drive space. The majority of people do not suffer over Linux so they can appear LeeT and gloat to their acquaintances. We use it because it works for us. We wanted an OpSys of which we were in control and found it worth the effort to learn to do so. Linux's downsides are well worth the increased efficiency and control to us.

I actually didn't mean disrespect by the analogy comparing Ubuntu to a Harley with training wheels. To further that analogy from my point of view Windows is a moped with a really rockin' paint job wink.gif Those serve a purpose or they wouldn't continue to exist, or in Windows case, be wildly popular. I referred to Ubuntu that way because many who get their eyes opened to what is possible will migrate to a deeper more serious distro if they continue with Linux. It is a decent intermediate step in escaping the control one must give up to use Windows. Whatever twirls ur beanie.

TANSTAAFL people! Everything comes at a cost and is a tradeoff. It's up to each to decide if he is getting good value in return for his investment whether that is measured in Time, Effort or Dollars (and aren't they nearly equivalent and transposable?)

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post #142 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 05:52 AM
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I'll keep this short : I'm like gaming, so no Linux for me.

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post #143 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 05:56 AM
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i would suggest linuxmint it beautifully made

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post #144 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

Linux, unlike Windows (and for many reasons some of which are actually designed that way on purpose in Windows to make it more "user-friendly" and convenient) DOES NOT SLOW DOWN IN DIRECT PROPORTION TO INSTALLED APPLICATIONS. It does not "prefetch" nor depend on the centralization (witness The Registry) or any of the other "services" that are assigned resources just in case someone might want to use them sometime.

That's not entirely accurate though. Daemons like CUPS are loaded upon system start up; if you don't have a printer then CUPS is an additional. Granted daemons like this will just lie idle so CPU time is non-existent (post boot time) and the memory footprint is minimal, however to say that there's no footprint at all is equally false. Enough of these services and you start slowing down less capable hardware.

Then you have application plug ins. The more GIMP plug ins you have, the slower GIMP will be to start; the more Eclipse plug ins you have, the slower Eclipse will be to start; and so on. Furthermore, these plug ins will also sit in memory. So the more plug ins you have, the larger chunk of memory you're assigning to the host application and thus the greater the demand on your host hardware.

Another factor your post doesn't take into account is heavier (by design) shared libraries. While not technically "more applications == slower", prettier window managers and desktop environment (such as compositing WMs shipped with user-focused distros) are slower than minimal WMs / DEs. For example, KWin and Plasma will have a very noticeable performance hit when benchmarked alongside DWM or even an X-less bash session. This effect can get amplified if you have several overlapping Windows, all compositing transparency effects while a foreground Window is being minimized. The cumulative effect on this can become noticeable very quickly (and becomes very unusable if the pleb running Linux doesn't have or only supports minimal hardware graphics acceleration). You wouldn't expect to see such cumulative effects on a tiling window manager and definitely wouldn't with backgrounded processes on a terminal session or multiple sessions on a terminal multiplexer such as Tmux.

Even moving away from graphics libraries, shared libraries can cause bottlenecks. For example samba can cause cascading hangs to SMB clients if the samba libraries decide to throw a wobbly (most noteably due to unclean network outage - ie your network connection drops before you unmount your remote SMB filesystems). I've seen brief NFS drops (outages of less than a few seconds) nearly crash servers as processes lock themselves into race conditions.

Now I'm not saying Windows does any of this better, because in my opinion it doesn't. It's just as prone to the same faults described above. And I'm not arguing that Linux isn't significantly better than Windows at running for a length of time without "naturally" slowing down. I just want to make the point that it's an unavoidable fact of computing that the more software you load and run, the greater the vector for problems. It's as true as the adage that it's impossible to write bug-free code of a sufficient length. So I think your comment about how the quantity of installed programs not impacting performance can be a little misleading.
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post #145 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStruckHorrors View Post

I'll keep this short : I'm like gaming, so no Linux for me.

And what was the point in this post other than to spam? rolleyes.gif
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post #146 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 06:38 AM
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Here's the OSs that I've used

Windows:
2000 Professional
XP Home Edition
Vista Home Premium
7 Home Premium
7 Enterprise

Linux:
Ubuntu 10.4
Ubuntu 10.10
OpenSUSE (don't remember what version)
Fedora 14 or 15?
Chrome OS

Mac:
OS 9
OS X

With that out of the way, I can honestly say that Ubuntu gave me the most trouble in every regard out of all these. You name it, I had a problem with it. Issues with my wireless card, problems installing, graphics card errors, etc. I'm not computer illiterate, being a CS major and all, it just so happens that Ubuntu was a problem child from day one. Every other OS I've used has worked fine (granted, the Mac ones were on a different machine). Reformatting the partition I'd installed Ubuntu on was a glorious day indeed.

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21st century innovation: removing functionality.

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Im not sure whether its worth getting it on PC and just get it on PS3?
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Originally Posted by DaXxJaPxX go_quote.gif

pc, this is an absurd question. anyone who says otherwise:
A)doesnt have a gaming PC
B) thinks 360/ps3 has better graphics than any PC
C) Has never seen a game played on a gaming pc
D) thinks unicorns are real and tupac is alive
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post #147 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 07:07 AM
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Ubuntu (or any other distro, for that matter) is not junk. It works and serves a purpose. That purpose is up to the user to decide. I've used so many versions of Linux over the years it would make your head spin. Some worked for me, some didn't and some I couldn't even finish the installation. Much of this depends on what version (old or new) and what hardware you have (old or new.) Many distros have their kernels tailored for certain usage. Many of the generic kernels today are not using the latest modules available. They are in the kernel but not enabled by default so you get the issues with drivers for LAN cards and the like on new motherboards. Compile a new kernel I you will find everything but the most bleeding edge hardware will work like a charm.

Linux is about choice. If you find a desktop environment you like the looks and flow of the layout, use it. Then pick a package management system you like... yum, apt, rpm, etc this will determine if you are using a Debian or Red Hat, etc based distro. Once you got the system you like with these options, learn to compile one of the latest kernels. Now you have a operating system made for your computer to suit your hardware and it will work, no matter which flavor of Linux it is.

I never understood the arguments about which distro is better. Linux is configurable down to the very last detail. This should be the reason why you want to use Linux in the first place. To make something that is customized to you, not a generic set of programs that everyone else uses.
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post #148 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraborealis View Post

Here's the OSs that I've used
Windows:
2000 Professional
XP Home Edition
Vista Home Premium
7 Home Premium
7 Enterprise
Linux:
Ubuntu 10.4
Ubuntu 10.10
OpenSUSE (don't remember what version)
Fedora 14 or 15?
Chrome OS
Mac:
OS 9
OS X
With that out of the way, I can honestly say that Ubuntu gave me the most trouble in every regard out of all these. You name it, I had a problem with it. Issues with my wireless card, problems installing, graphics card errors, etc. I'm not computer illiterate, being a CS major and all, it just so happens that Ubuntu was a problem child from day one. Every other OS I've used has worked fine (granted, the Mac ones were on a different machine). Reformatting the partition I'd installed Ubuntu on was a glorious day indeed.

Yay, the "list what I've installed and used / supported" game:

DOS
CP/M (I can't even remember the system I ran that still supported this!)
MS-DOS
AMS-DOS
DR-DOS
FreeDOS
(I'm sure there was one other I used to run, but I can't for the life of me remember what)

Microsoft (desktop + server)
Win 2 (ok technically not OSs - but included for completeness)
Win 3.0
Win 3.1
Win 95
Win 98
Win Me
Win for Workgroups
NT 4
Win Pro 2000
Win Server 2000
XP
Win Server 2003
Vista
Win Server 2008
Win 7

Apple (desktop + server)
Apple II
Mac OS 7
Mac OS 8
Mac OS 9
OS X

BeOS + clones
BeOS 5
Haiku
ZETA

Linux (I'm not even going to break these down by version numbers as I've been using some for 10+ years)
Debian
Ubuntu / Kubuntu / Xbuntu / Ubuntu Studio
Redhat / RHEL
Mandrake / Mandraver
CentOS
SuSE / OpenSuse / SLES
Slackware
Gentoo
ArchLinx / Chakar (sp?)
DSL
Some weird Linux built for the Dreamcast
(again, I'm know I'm missing several off that list)

Unix
FreeBSD
Solaris
OpenSolaris
NexentaCP

Misc Unix-like
Minix
Plan9
ArchHurd
Some variant of TSS which I can't recall
My gut tells me I also used to run a QNX virtual machine, but I'm damned if I can remember anything about it.

Various BASIC driven OSs for the following computers
Amstrad CPC 464
BBC Micro
Commedore 64
ZX Speccy

Misc / Hobbyiest
AtariOS
AmigaOS
Visosys
RISC OS
ReactOS

Embedded / mobile
Win CE (numerous versions)
Win Mobile (numerous versions)
Android (every release from 1.0 through to ICS)
WebOS 3
Blackberry OS (unfortunately)
iOS (Apple)
IOS (Cisco)

I know I've missed a tone off that list though and yeah I know this is a huge phallus-waving post, but I don't care tongue.gif
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post #149 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 07:58 AM
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You forgot YellowDog...and... NetBSD... And Windows 98 SE!

Or we can just not make lists anymore cause as Plan9 just proved, useless. I've used just about every commercially available Windows/Linux/Unix/Unix-Like as well.

And god bless you for not forgetting Commodore 64.
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post #150 of 294 Old 03-15-2012, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

You forgot YellowDog...and... NetBSD... And Windows 98 SE!
Or we can just not make lists anymore cause as Plan9 just proved, useless.

lol that list took me ages!

I've never used YellowDog. Isn't that another Ubuntu derivative? (n00b question)
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