Nixeus EDG 27" IPS 144Hz FreeSync Gaming Monitor - Page 35 - Overclock.net

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post #341 of 367 Old 12-13-2017, 03:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peter Nixeus View Post

Also regarding Over Drive, if you turn FreeSync ON - any Over Drive settings on the monitor gets over ridden and Adaptive Over Drive starts working... even if Over Drive in the monitor's OSD is set to OFF.

When testing out the 'Over Drive' settings I've found that even in graphics applications, with Freesync actively working, overdrive doesn't appear to be adaptively controlled.

Taking the 'G-sync Pendulum' demo as an example, with the 'Test Pattern' option I can clearly see 'low' does one thing, whilst 'off', 'medium' and 'high' do another (seemingly nothing). For further confirmation I also started the Unigine Heaven demo (using exclusive full screen) and, using the free camera, headed over to the windmill blades: just as before the overdrive settings aren't being overridden - 'low' does one thing, whilst the rest of the settings do seemingly nothing. What's more, the 'low' setting in both cases has troubling ringing/overshoot/inverse ghosting artefacts on the trails behind the Pendulum test pattern bar and Heaven's windmill blades. If the frame-rate is up towards ~144Hz the effect of overdrive seems fine (as best I can tell with the small number of pixels the pattern bar moves frame-to-frame), but as the frame-rate (and thus refresh rate) goes towards the low-end of the freesync range the inverse ghosting effect is terrible (loads of pixels need changing due to pattern bar movement speed vs frame delta time). Is adaptive overdrive really working for me?

Can anyone else here check if this happens for them too? Also, any ideas of a fix on my end?

Having waited months to finally get this in the UK, this overdrive trouble, not to mention some pretty bad BLB in the upper left, is pushing me towards a feeling of heavy disappointment. Any help would really be appreciated. Thanks.

edit: Update - Even with Freesync set to 'Off' in the AMD driver settings, the only 'Over Drive' setting on the monitor that seems to combat ghosting/trailing is 'Low'. The rest of the monitor settings ('Off', 'Medium', 'High') all appear to do the same thing, which is nothing. thinking.gif
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post #342 of 367 Old 12-13-2017, 06:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TheBrew View Post

When testing out the 'Over Drive' settings I've found that even in graphics applications, with Freesync actively working, overdrive doesn't appear to be adaptively controlled.

Taking the 'G-sync Pendulum' demo as an example, with the 'Test Pattern' option I can clearly see 'low' does one thing, whilst 'off', 'medium' and 'high' do another (seemingly nothing). For further confirmation I also started the Unigine Heaven demo (using exclusive full screen) and, using the free camera, headed over to the windmill blades: just as before the overdrive settings aren't being overridden - 'low' does one thing, whilst the rest of the settings do seemingly nothing. What's more, the 'low' setting in both cases has troubling ringing/overshoot/inverse ghosting artefacts on the trails behind the Pendulum test pattern bar and Heaven's windmill blades. If the frame-rate is up towards ~144Hz the effect of overdrive seems fine (as best I can tell with the small number of pixels the pattern bar moves frame-to-frame), but as the frame-rate (and thus refresh rate) goes towards the low-end of the freesync range the inverse ghosting effect is terrible (loads of pixels need changing due to pattern bar movement speed vs frame delta time). Is adaptive overdrive really working for me?

Can anyone else here check if this happens for them too? Also, any ideas of a fix on my end?

Having waited months to finally get this in the UK, this overdrive trouble, not to mention some pretty bad BLB in the upper left, is pushing me towards a feeling of heavy disappointment. Any help would really be appreciated. Thanks.

edit: Update - Even with Freesync set to 'Off' in the AMD driver settings, the only 'Over Drive' setting on the monitor that seems to combat ghosting/trailing is 'Low'. The rest of the monitor settings ('Off', 'Medium', 'High') all appear to do the same thing, which is nothing. thinking.gif

Are you using the newest AMD Drivers?
There is something weird going on with FreeSync in the recent AMD Drivers - there are some current issues due to the new Radeon Drivers that has to be fixed. I just ran the AMD Windmill Demo with FreeSync ON and saw inverse ghosting on the Low Over Drive settings when I didn't see it in the past. I'm also seeing the FPS/Hz going jumping to over 60FPS/60Hz even though the AMD Windmill Demo doesn't support more than 60FPS during the demo test = causing brightness flickering.

For the NX-EDG27 the recommended Over Drive setting is Low, where as Med and High may be too strong and may cause inverse ghosting (with FreeSync OFF) depending on the game or application you are running.

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post #343 of 367 Old 12-14-2017, 05:38 PM
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Is this still a good monitor for $399 or are their better ones out there for the same price or even cheaper?

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post #344 of 367 Old 12-16-2017, 02:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nixeus View Post

Are you using the newest AMD Drivers?
There is something weird going on with FreeSync in the recent AMD Drivers - there are some current issues that has to be fixed. I just ran the AMD Windmill Demo with FreeSync ON and saw inverse ghosting on the Low Over Drive settings when I didn't see it in the past. I'm also seeing the FPS/Hz going jumping to over 60FPS/60Hz even though the AMD Windmill Demo doesn't support more than 60FPS during the demo test = causing brightness flickering.

I can't say anything about the AMD windmill demo - not used it. I've been using G-sync pendulum, TestUFO, some Unigine demos and a few different games.

I've tried 17.2.1 and the new 17.7.2 'Adrenalin' on Windows 10 x64, as well as an old 16.12.2 version on Windows 7 x64. Two installations and three different drivers, and the Freesync 'OFF' and 'ON' behaviour is the same with all of them. I've also tested the monitor on a laptop with Intel graphics and HDMI-out (limit 60Hz@1440p) to test and confirm how 'Over Drive' settings affect picture quality in fixed refresh, which ends up behaving just as the monitor does with fixed refresh on my AMD desktop.

Forgive any ignorance on my part, but how does the AMD driver play any role in how the monitor implements overdrive? I'd have though the gpu neither knows nor cares about overdrive?! The monitor accepts the input and decides for itself how to handle overdrive and response time compensation based on it's own h/w and characteristics, right? I don't understand why the gpu would factor in to the operation of a monitor-side feature like overdrive. confusedsmiley.png
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nixeus View Post

For the NX-EDG27 the recommended Over Drive setting is Low, where as Med and High may be too strong and may cause inverse ghosting (with FreeSync OFF) depending on the game or application you are running.

In case I didn't explain it well enough earlier; the 'Medium' and 'High' overdrive settings don't seem to differ from 'Off', so they truly don't seem to do anything when Freesync is 'OFF' (ie. fixed refresh) for me. That being the case obviously means inverse ghosting isn't a possibility on 'Medium' and 'High' if little to no response time compensation is even being applied.

The only overdrive setting the appears to do something is 'Low'. However, that's only slightly useful and even then only when used with a high refresh. If 'Low' is used with a low refresh, I get extremely bad inverse ghosting in multiple different scenarios. (More details below)

This is the overdrive behaviour I see with Freesync 'OFF', on all of the system configurations I mentioned at the top of this post.

This is also the behaviour I see with Freesync 'ON'. Given similar refresh rates, and given the same monitor overdrive setting, Freesync 'ON' will result in the same image quality as Freesync 'OFF'.

At 144Hz, it's often 3 frames of ghosting, seldom 2. 'Off', 'Medium', 'High' do nothing. 'Low' slightly helps the transition, but rarely does it reduce the total number of ghosted frames.
At 40Hz & 60Hz, I see 1 frame of ghosting. 'Off', 'Medium', 'High' do nothing. 'Low' causes terrible inverse ghosting of the 1 old frame, and at 40Hz it's a slap in the face.

3 frames is ~20ms of response time. That occurs with so many different rising and falling colour transitions!

This is what happens with Freesync 'OFF' (AMD or Intel) at those fixed refresh rates, and this is also what happens with Freesync 'ON' with manual frame-limiting to achieve the same equivalent refresh rate.

Freesync 'OFF' behaviour was tested with TestUFO browser tests, G-Sync Pendulum, Unigine Heaven, a few random games. Freesync 'ON' tested the same way, except without TestUFO. I've taken numerous photos at fast shutter speeds to be confident in what I've seen and measured, and that's ignoring how obvious it is to my own eyes in some scenarios as well (the reason I picked up on this in the first place).

All in all, I do not see any evidence of adaptive overdrive, nor do I see any evidence that Freesync 'OFF'/fixed refresh overdrive settings behave in the manner you described?! I cannot find a single way to positively implement overdrive suitable for lower refresh rates, nor can I find any way of getting even ~1 frames of ghosting, never mind the 0 frames of ghosting you'd want with overdrive implementation (even if there were inverse ghosting, this is a long way getting near to any form of overshoot). That being the case, the response time always seems higher than the 7ms required for ideal 144Hz input.

What am I to do? hmmsmiley02.gif

P.s. I'd be curious to see how those different refresh rates and overdrive settings compare for others. Perhaps, the TestUFO 'Chase Squares' page. Shouldn't take a minute and the inverse ghosting should slap you in the face at 60Hz and under. That is, unless of course other people have overdrive settings behaving differently to me?! Otherwise, I'll do an image dump if needed/necessary.
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post #345 of 367 Old 12-18-2017, 02:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TheBrew View Post

I can't say anything about the AMD windmill demo - not used it. I've been using G-sync pendulum, TestUFO, some Unigine demos and a few different games.

I've tried 17.2.1 and the new 17.7.2 'Adrenalin' on Windows 10 x64, as well as an old 16.12.2 version on Windows 7 x64. Two installations and three different drivers, and the Freesync 'OFF' and 'ON' behaviour is the same with all of them. I've also tested the monitor on a laptop with Intel graphics and HDMI-out (limit 60Hz@1440p) to test and confirm how 'Over Drive' settings affect picture quality in fixed refresh, which ends up behaving just as the monitor does with fixed refresh on my AMD desktop.

Forgive any ignorance on my part, but how does the AMD driver play any role in how the monitor implements overdrive? I'd have though the gpu neither knows nor cares about overdrive?! The monitor accepts the input and decides for itself how to handle overdrive and response time compensation based on it's own h/w and characteristics, right? I don't understand why the gpu would factor in to the operation of a monitor-side feature like overdrive. confusedsmiley.png
In case I didn't explain it well enough earlier; the 'Medium' and 'High' overdrive settings don't seem to differ from 'Off', so they truly don't seem to do anything when Freesync is 'OFF' (ie. fixed refresh) for me. That being the case obviously means inverse ghosting isn't a possibility on 'Medium' and 'High' if little to no response time compensation is even being applied.

The only overdrive setting the appears to do something is 'Low'. However, that's only slightly useful and even then only when used with a high refresh. If 'Low' is used with a low refresh, I get extremely bad inverse ghosting in multiple different scenarios. (More details below)

This is the overdrive behaviour I see with Freesync 'OFF', on all of the system configurations I mentioned at the top of this post.

This is also the behaviour I see with Freesync 'ON'. Given similar refresh rates, and given the same monitor overdrive setting, Freesync 'ON' will result in the same image quality as Freesync 'OFF'.

At 144Hz, it's often 3 frames of ghosting, seldom 2. 'Off', 'Medium', 'High' do nothing. 'Low' slightly helps the transition, but rarely does it reduce the total number of ghosted frames.
At 40Hz & 60Hz, I see 1 frame of ghosting. 'Off', 'Medium', 'High' do nothing. 'Low' causes terrible inverse ghosting of the 1 old frame, and at 40Hz it's a slap in the face.

3 frames is ~20ms of response time. That occurs with so many different rising and falling colour transitions!

This is what happens with Freesync 'OFF' (AMD or Intel) at those fixed refresh rates, and this is also what happens with Freesync 'ON' with manual frame-limiting to achieve the same equivalent refresh rate.

Freesync 'OFF' behaviour was tested with TestUFO browser tests, G-Sync Pendulum, Unigine Heaven, a few random games. Freesync 'ON' tested the same way, except without TestUFO. I've taken numerous photos at fast shutter speeds to be confident in what I've seen and measured, and that's ignoring how obvious it is to my own eyes in some scenarios as well (the reason I picked up on this in the first place).

All in all, I do not see any evidence of adaptive overdrive, nor do I see any evidence that Freesync 'OFF'/fixed refresh overdrive settings behave in the manner you described?! I cannot find a single way to positively implement overdrive suitable for lower refresh rates, nor can I find any way of getting even ~1 frames of ghosting, never mind the 0 frames of ghosting you'd want with overdrive implementation (even if there were inverse ghosting, this is a long way getting near to any form of overshoot). That being the case, the response time always seems higher than the 7ms required for ideal 144Hz input.

What am I to do? hmmsmiley02.gif

P.s. I'd be curious to see how those different refresh rates and overdrive settings compare for others. Perhaps, the TestUFO 'Chase Squares' page. Shouldn't take a minute and the inverse ghosting should slap you in the face at 60Hz and under. That is, unless of course other people have overdrive settings behaving differently to me?! Otherwise, I'll do an image dump if needed/necessary.

Thank-you for the clarification and comments.

Over drive It is not perfect, including the G-Sync monitor versions. At lower Hz and FPS there may still be some kind of ghosting depending on the application due to the response times at those refresh rates to paint the picture frame by frame to match the refresh rate. GPU plays a part in how many FPS or when to send the FPS (FreeSync/Gsync) it sends or communicates with the monitor. Also, Higher FPS = lower lag too, low FPS = High lag... which is why high performance GPUs are desired and may cost more.

There has been a professional review using your tests (see link below) - in the mean time I'll look into the Med and High settings of Over Drive... at the moment the Low setting is the recommended setting:

https://www.custompcreview.com/reviews/nixeus-nx-edg27-27-inch-2560x1440-ips-144hz-freesync-gaming-monitor-review/

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post #346 of 367 Old 12-19-2017, 10:14 AM
 
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Doesn't the review kind of confirm what the user thebrew reported:
Quote:
Interestingly enough, with overdrive set to off, medium or high, the resulting image has visible ghosting.
cited from the review https://www.custompcreview.com/reviews/nixeus-nx-edg27-27-inch-2560x1440-ips-144hz-freesync-gaming-monitor-review/

In my opinion it wouldn't be a big deal if only the low overdrive settings works properly when freesync is disabled, but it would be a real pity if overdrive doesn't work as intented at all when freesync is enabled
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post #347 of 367 Old 12-19-2017, 09:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peter Nixeus View Post

Over drive It is not perfect, including the G-Sync monitor versions.

That's understandable. I've seen how overdrive options have fared in reviews for other monitors, and have seen how there may sometimes be overshoot errors at 60Hz where the same overdrive setting had no errors at 144Hz. Conversely, i'm sure the reverse may be true in some instances. However, that's exactly why I had high hopes for the "adaptive overdrive" touted on this monitor - I was expecting the correct levels of overdrive to be implemented on-the-fly so that it was always optimally applied for whatever the refresh rate is running at. Considering the results I reported previously, I don't know what "adaptive" actually means here now, unless it's not working as it should?

What are users supposed to actually expect of this 'adaptive overdrive' feature in comparison to the overdrive implementations in the competition??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nixeus View Post

At lower Hz and FPS there may still be some kind of ghosting depending on the application due to the response times at those refresh rates to paint the picture frame by frame to match the refresh rate.

I do still expect ghosting, of course. Response time would have to be instantaneous to remove it from panels altogether. In the best case I'd still expect 1 frame of ghosting at low refresh rates, given how many millis a sub-60Hz frame allows for a pixel to change. That said, with overdrive at low refresh rates you'd hope for less time spent with that ghost persistent whilst the current frame is displayed. This is what I was hoping to see. I didn't expect it be a choice of no overdrive with long ghosting versus overdrive with bad inverse ghosting. Not much of a decent choice for occasions where 30-60Hz range content is unavoidable.

I really want to point out that I didn't go running tests looking for problems. I was fairly content, even in light of my BLB (pun not intended), and was sat down to have some fun with it. It's only because I picked up on the visual nastiness in some games at low refresh that I investigated it (I uncovered most aspects during my troubleshooting and testing). Games with lots of high frequency variation on screen makes this sort of error hard to see, perceptually, but when viewing content with clean environments with contrasting edges the haloing caused by inverse ghosting is like some edge detection operator when in motion. Think of Portal or Mirror's Edge -esque clean design, etc. I was thinking of using CRU to alter the point that LFC kicks in from 30Hz to say 40Hz or 50Hz, but the inverse ghosting can be easily seen at 60, and sometimes 70 (with scenarios such as when the player camera is stationary with an animated object moving directly in front of the player. eg. objects like the windmill blades in Unigine Heaven). Expecting everything to hit above these fps targets is a big ask just to make overdrive artefacts unnoticeable.
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Originally Posted by Peter Nixeus View Post

There has been a professional review using your tests (see link below) - in the mean time I'll look into the Med and High settings of Over Drive... at the moment the Low setting is the recommended setting:

https://www.custompcreview.com/reviews/nixeus-nx-edg27-27-inch-2560x1440-ips-144hz-freesync-gaming-monitor-review/

Interestingly enough, with overdrive set to off, medium or high, the resulting image has visible ghosting.

As aliquis pointed out, that review picks up on it too. If they're basing ghosting and overdrive results on TestUFO, then I believe that should be the monitor running in fixed refresh mode with the browser painting at max refresh. In that case their observations are those for overdrive in fixed refresh/Freesync OFF mode, not Freesync ON mode. For an otherwise extensive review, it's a shame only one set of refresh rate results are reported on (I presume default 144Hz based on the ~3 ghosted frames in both overdrive 'Off' & 'Low' photos). Without perf tests at other refresh rates it doesn't feel fully reviewed, especially considering the adaptive overdrive selling point. That, alongside the BLB and panel QC, is why I was happy to wait ~8 months with an existing failing monitor.
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post #348 of 367 Old 12-24-2017, 12:27 AM
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Is image retention an issue on this monitor? I was looking at picking one up but noticed that someone was complaining about image retention on Newegg.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/SingleProductReview.aspx?ReviewID=5102836


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post #349 of 367 Old 12-26-2017, 01:39 PM
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There were 3 available on newegg.ca for a time. Waited to see if they would go on sale for the holidays, however they sold out. I just noticed that they got some more and ordered one at regular price. I hope it will be a mint!! @ NitrousX, I'd say order with confidence as Nixeus assured that they have put more quality control into their model. If not, Amazon (in your case newegg) or Peter Nixeus will take care of us.

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post #350 of 367 Old 12-26-2017, 04:24 PM
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@Peter Nixeus Is there a VESA standard for the depth of the VESA mount holes on the monitor? I ask because my new VESA mount came with 2 different sets of screws and both of them are way too long for the holes on the EDG 27. Even my previous mount's screws were just a tad too long (required washers). My crummy old monitor has no issue with these long screws although these 2 monitors are my only experience with VESA mounting. Maybe most monitors mount holes have a shallow depth and the screws that come with the mount are just obscenely long?
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