[Ars/TV] Windows 10 will be automatically downloaded to Windows 7 and Windows 8 machines next year - Page 13 - Overclock.net

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post #121 of 135 Old 11-02-2015, 08:08 AM
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post #122 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 01:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

No, not everyone hates Win 10 because it's being forced on them. Many hate for reasons such as lost features, forced updates that could damage or brick a computer or take away yet another feature, bandwidth stealing, heavily increased spying that can't be completely turned off (despite what some people claim), appearance, unnecessary and often less productive workflow changes, etc.

Okay, fair points.

But;

1) "Lost" features? IIRC, XP to Vista, the latter lost features. XP to 7, the latter lost features too... but overtime, people eventually forgets and installs third-party apps to supplement the "lost" features irregardless.
2) Use Win 10 Pro, choose your own updates. Problem solved.
3) Uhm... it isn't just Win 10 stealing your bandwidth. Your phone, tablets, heck any other services you use are stealing bandwidth all the time anyways. Sure, Win 10 probably steals the most. That I'd agree.
4) You are being spied on this forum itself, do you really think you're invincible on the net or any software/device that is connected? Deal with it.
5) A..ppearance? Wait, what? Don't like the look, then go skin it. I thought Win 7 looked stupid, guess what? I skinned it. Problem solved.
6) Explain "less" productive workflow please. Isn't that related to the type of programs you use? If you're talking MS software, MS Office has been pretty damn productive for me. So I don't know what you're actually trying to say here.
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post #123 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 02:22 AM
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If I may chime in with my 2cents.gif
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Originally Posted by benbenkr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

No, not everyone hates Win 10 because it's being forced on them. Many hate for reasons such as lost features, forced updates that could damage or brick a computer or take away yet another feature, bandwidth stealing, heavily increased spying that can't be completely turned off (despite what some people claim), appearance, unnecessary and often less productive workflow changes, etc.

Okay, fair points.

But;

1) "Lost" features? IIRC, XP to Vista, the latter lost features. XP to 7, the latter lost features too... but overtime, people eventually forgets and installs third-party apps to supplement the "lost" features irregardless.
2) Use Win 10 Pro, choose your own updates. Problem solved.
3) Uhm... it isn't just Win 10 stealing your bandwidth. Your phone, tablets, heck any other services you use are stealing bandwidth all the time anyways. Sure, Win 10 probably steals the most. That I'd agree.
4) You are being spied on this forum itself, do you really think you're invincible on the net or any software/device that is connected? Deal with it.
5) A..ppearance? Wait, what? Don't like the look, then go skin it. I thought Win 7 looked stupid, guess what? I skinned it. Problem solved.
6) Explain "less" productive workflow please. Isn't that related to the type of programs you use? If you're talking MS software, MS Office has been pretty damn productive for me. So I don't know what you're actually trying to say here.

1. XP to Vista/7 - frankly, my biggest 'gripe' was Start+U. To quickly provide a few examples of 7 > 8 lost features:
- detailed BSODs;
- Task Manager doesn't save any customization if the process is killed;
- Aero (I kind of miss Start+Tab window switching).

2. You can't "use" Win 10 Pro if you didn't have 7/8.1 Pro. You will have to purchase it. Problem still unsolved. Let alone that when you upgrade to 10 "for free", you get an OEM license.

3. My phone/tablets/everything doesn't automatically participate in a P2P network to distribute Windows Updates. Windows Updates that it automatically downloads and installs on my computer, without proper documentation or at least description being presented to me first.
Also, in the current state, you have more control over your Phone's data transmission than your computer's OS.
Further, you can set a data cap on your phone to avoid being overcharged. You can't do this for Windows' background transfers and telemetry data.

4. We are trying to "deal with it" and W10 is most definitely not helping. Your point is moot since it's a counter-argument to the whole topic, not the opinion you defend.

5. Appearance, eh? I do not want to have to remedy things like the following to allow for basic usability. Let me just leave this here... I remind you - this is not how a finished and polished product should look like after over two years. (Click to show)

6. No, it is described as having to navigate through extra locations for simple tasks. Starting off with the built-in functionality for opening various files which transitions to a whole different OS layer which is not easily switched in and out of; then moving on to having a touch-oriented interface on a Desktop which requires panning around and corner navigation for extra menus; and finishing with something as simple as turning your PC off. It takes you what, four clicks via the traditional interface?


Do keep in mind that I am directly comparing with Windows 7, since I do not consider out-of-box 8/8.1 anything near viable for business, especially UI-wise.
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post #124 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragamemnon View Post

If I may chime in with my 2cents.gif
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Originally Posted by benbenkr View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

No, not everyone hates Win 10 because it's being forced on them. Many hate for reasons such as lost features, forced updates that could damage or brick a computer or take away yet another feature, bandwidth stealing, heavily increased spying that can't be completely turned off (despite what some people claim), appearance, unnecessary and often less productive workflow changes, etc.

Okay, fair points.

But;

1) "Lost" features? IIRC, XP to Vista, the latter lost features. XP to 7, the latter lost features too... but overtime, people eventually forgets and installs third-party apps to supplement the "lost" features irregardless.
2) Use Win 10 Pro, choose your own updates. Problem solved.
3) Uhm... it isn't just Win 10 stealing your bandwidth. Your phone, tablets, heck any other services you use are stealing bandwidth all the time anyways. Sure, Win 10 probably steals the most. That I'd agree.
4) You are being spied on this forum itself, do you really think you're invincible on the net or any software/device that is connected? Deal with it.
5) A..ppearance? Wait, what? Don't like the look, then go skin it. I thought Win 7 looked stupid, guess what? I skinned it. Problem solved.
6) Explain "less" productive workflow please. Isn't that related to the type of programs you use? If you're talking MS software, MS Office has been pretty damn productive for me. So I don't know what you're actually trying to say here.


1. XP to Vista/7 - frankly, my biggest 'gripe' was Start+U. To quickly provide a few examples of 7 > 8 lost features:
- detailed BSODs;
- Task Manager doesn't save any customization if the process is killed;
- Aero (I kind of miss Start+Tab window switching).

2. You can't "use" Win 10 Pro if you didn't have 7/8.1 Pro. You will have to purchase it. Problem still unsolved. Let alone that when you upgrade to 10 "for free", you get an OEM license.

3. My phone/tablets/everything doesn't automatically participate in a P2P network to distribute Windows Updates. Windows Updates that it automatically downloads and installs on my computer, without proper documentation or at least description being presented to me first.
Also, in the current state, you have more control over your Phone's data transmission than your computer's OS.
Further, you can set a data cap on your phone to avoid being overcharged. You can't do this for Windows' background transfers and telemetry data.

4. We are trying to "deal with it" and W10 is most definitely not helping. Your point is moot since it's a counter-argument to the whole topic, not the opinion you defend.

5. Appearance, eh? I do not want to have to remedy things like the following to allow for basic usability.


6. No, it is described as having to navigate through extra locations for simple tasks. Starting off with the built-in functionality for opening various files which transitions to a whole different OS layer which is not easily switched in and out of; then moving on to having a touch-oriented interface on a Desktop which requires panning around and corner navigation for extra menus; and finishing with something as simple as turning your PC off. It takes you what, four clicks via the traditional interface?


Do keep in mind that I am directly comparing with Windows 7, since I do not consider out-of-box 8/8.1 anything near viable for business, especially UI-wise.

 

2) that's pretty much obvious, Pro is more expensive and business-oriented. Giving you the ability to go to Pro from a home license is ludicrous.

 

3) If you own a Pro license it can be disabled. Again, in a business environment you have WSUS controlling the update behaviour so it isn't a problem for enterprises. Now, the degree of customization WSUS allows for W10 update behaviour I don't know, as I haven't yet tried it extensively enough but this appears to be unchanged.

 

5) Agree. Active/inactive window color schemes are atrocious. The rest, uh, I like it. No problems.

 

6) Disagree. I don't find it any less usable than 7, and in some things it is an improvement.

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post #125 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 05:20 AM
 
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I've been pretty happy with windows 10 on my Desktop, though I have Pro. I wouldn't be happy with forced updates.

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post #126 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by fragamemnon View Post



2. You can't "use" Win 10 Pro if you didn't have 7/8.1 Pro. You will have to purchase it. Problem still unsolved. Let alone that when you upgrade to 10 "for free", you get an OEM license.

Apart from the known spying and being a beta OS this is the number one reason I will not take the free upgrade to 10. Between myself and the rest of the family there are 6 full retail copies of Win 7 Pro 64 bit that have been through at least 2 complete hardware upgrades a piece since Win 7's release in 2009. Microsoft has planned to continue to support 7 until 2020, possibly even later depending on how the industry adapts over time until then. So no I am not about to trade the licenses I have that will go through at least 2-3 more hardware upgrades between now and 2020 for a "free" OEM copy of 10 that will be tied to the current machine Win 7 is installed on.

Makes absolutely no sense to trade in something worth more for something worth a lot less.

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post #127 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 06:28 AM
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2) that's pretty much obvious, Pro is more expensive and business-oriented. Giving you the ability to go to Pro from a home license is ludicrous.

3) If you own a Pro license it can be disabled. Again, in a business environment you have WSUS controlling the update behaviour so it isn't a problem for enterprises. Now, the degree of customization WSUS allows for W10 update behaviour I don't know, as I haven't yet tried it extensively enough but this appears to be unchanged.

6) Disagree. I don't find it any less usable than 7, and in some things it is an improvement.

2) and 3)

LTSB is not supported on Pro version, by the way. Oh, and you don't have UX control.


6) We will have to agree to disagree here. It's a very subjective matter since there are alternative routes and everyone perceives things differently.
I like a cleaner approach with interaction brought down to a minimum, but that's also the reason I can live with this UI (although I've tweaked it for personal convenience) - I mainly use keyboard shortcuts.


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post #128 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 05:19 PM
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Apart from the known spying and being a beta OS this is the number one reason I will not take the free upgrade to 10. Between myself and the rest of the family there are 6 full retail copies of Win 7 Pro 64 bit that have been through at least 2 complete hardware upgrades a piece since Win 7's release in 2009. Microsoft has planned to continue to support 7 until 2020, possibly even later depending on how the industry adapts over time until then. So no I am not about to trade the licenses I have that will go through at least 2-3 more hardware upgrades between now and 2020 for a "free" OEM copy of 10 that will be tied to the current machine Win 7 is installed on.

Makes absolutely no sense to trade in something worth more for something worth a lot less.

Hmmm, so it going to be like a OEM?

Crap that, they can keep it. The way l like to switch around hardware and such to mess with and fold, that be a pain in the butt to deal with.

Seems the 7 on my rig going to be staying there for a long while now. ...Adobe, Artrage, etc. really need to get their programs be able to run in Linux so I can drop Windows fully. (I can live without games anyway)

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post #129 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 06:10 PM
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Hmmm, so it going to be like a OEM?

Crap that, they can keep it. The way l like to switch around hardware and such to mess with and fold, that be a pain in the butt to deal with.

Seems the 7 on my rig going to be staying there for a long while now. ...Adobe, Artrage, etc. really need to get their programs be able to run in Linux so I can drop Windows fully. (I can live without games anyway)

Yep, the free (OEM) copy of Windows 10 is tied to whatever machine it is applied to regardless of what type of license Win 7/8/8.1 was and cannot be transferred to a completely different machine.

More details below:

Quote:
Microsoft has never actually wanted to explain exactly how the hardware-based Windows activation process works. Just replacing your hard drive or upgrading your graphics card shouldn’t cause a problem. If you’ve just changed a few peripherals, Windows 10 may just automatically activate itself after you clean-install it.

However, replacing your computer’s motherboard or CPU will likely be so big a change that it prevents the PC from automatically activating. Windows 10 will see it as a different hardware configuration, one which isn’t allowed to have the free upgrade.

Quote:
You Can’t Move a Free Windows 10 License to Another PC

Bear in mind that this will only work on the same PC. This does create some an inconvenient situation for people who bought a full retail license — not an OEM license — of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. Most people don’t do this, though — even people building their own PCs usually seem to buy OEM copies of Windows.

Those retail licenses are portable between different PCs, so you can take them with you from PC to PC. You might have purchased a Windows 7 license and built your own PC. Build a new PC a few years later and you can take that Windows 7 license with you as long as you remove it from the first machine. Rinse and repeat over and over — as long as you’d like to continue using Windows 7.

However, that free Windows 10 license you get as part of the upgrade process is tied to an individual PC. Even if you upgraded from a retail copy of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1, you won’t be given a retail copy of Windows 10. You just can’t move that free Windows 10 license to another PC. After the first year is up and the free Windows 10 upgrade offer is over, you’ll have to buy a new copy of Windows 10 if you want to move it to an entirely different PC.

This may feel a bit inconvenient. But, on the other hand, that Windows 10 license was just a free bonus in the first place. Retail licenses of Windows 10 you purchase can be moved between PCs in the same way.

Full article here http://www.howtogeek.com/226510/how-to-use-your-free-windows-10-license-after-changing-your-pc%E2%80%99s-hardware/

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post #130 of 135 Old 11-03-2015, 07:17 PM
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So is Windows 10 free in 2016+ even if downloaded? They are trying to force people to upgrade, right?

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