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post #11 of 18 Old 07-16-2013, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Funny. I did run AS Cleaner. But trying to Shrink the partition, it says there's only 2,8GB available to Shrink. Despite having 40GB of free storage.

Running AS Cleaner did not improve performance though (tried with Seq writes). A curious case, with this SSD. Maybe it's really doomed.
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post #12 of 18 Old 07-16-2013, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szymon247 View Post

Funny. I did run AS Cleaner. But trying to Shrink the partition, it says there's only 2,8GB available to Shrink. Despite having 40GB of free storage.

Probably because the free space isn't contiguous. You might need to try another program such as EaseUS Partition Master to resize. Best bet for your performance woes: create a backup image of the SSD, secure erase and restore from image. Of course, whatever you do, it's still a good idea to over provision particularly since your SSD doesn't have TRIM.
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post #13 of 18 Old 07-16-2013, 10:22 PM
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OMG man, stop running AS SSD on that SSD!!

It's like filling your car's tires with air, and then seeing how long it takes to let the air out to measure how much air was in the tire. If you have no TRIM (how do you know that?) then the huge files (one GB) that AS SSD uses have used up your spare area.

The TRIM enabled firmware mentioned in the thread posted previously was available over two years ago. What OS is on that PC?

So you've done disk cleanups with CCleaner, or just Windows disk cleanup? Ever remove old restore points? Is the Recycle bin empty?

Yes, logoff the PC overnight while plugged in, that should cause any GC in the SSD to wake up.

I'm sorry, but I'm to lazy to Google that for you...
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post #14 of 18 Old 07-17-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

Stop using AS SSD for now (in particular the random write tests). It's just making the situation worse. Try searching for "AS Cleaner" or "FreeSpaceCleaner" to manually TRIM your drive (use 1-fill/FF option). After that, over provision your SSD so you don't have to experience this situation again.

Exploring the Relationship Between Spare Area and Performance Consistency in Modern SSDs

^ This!

Stop running ANY BENCHMARKS!!!! Even some of the Read Tests will write a lot more data than you'd think, and the Write Tests are absolutely brutal! With a HEALTHY SSD, you should not bench the drive more than ~1-2x a month, or you can practically watch in real-time as your SSD's NAND life ticks away.

I don't care what the benchmark is; AS-SSD, HD Tune, ATTO Disk Bench, Samsung Magician, etc... STOP!!!!!

You need to do as many things as possible to fix the drive, and only once you've exhausted every single possible solution short of a reformat, do you run a benchmark. Even then, you run it ONE TIME, and you'll only be doing it to determine if the drive performance has improved at all (and if so, to what degree), and use that data to make a decision regarding a reformat.

I am assuming your drive is a Samsung 470? All of the "older" SSD's, with few exceptions (i.e. X25-E), use MLC NAND that is not anywhere close to what we have now, and while current Samsung drives (the 830 256 in particular) are known for being THE most reliable drives in the consumer marketplace, that's due in large part to the use of their in-house Toggle NAND (and 3-core controller), which the drives preceding the 830 didn't use. That's not to say the 470 isn't reliable, it's just that you have to keep your expectations in check and realize that it isn't in the same league as current gen (i.e. Toggle NAND/eMLC/etc) SSD's.


EDIT: Emptying the recycle bin should trigger GC/TRIM to kick in. Since it's a Samsung drive, what happens if you try to use the Samsung Magician software? Have you even tried it? D/L it and run the "Performance Optimization", which is a manual way of triggering and running GC/TRIM on your drive. The program will also allow you to PROPERLY over-provision your drive; that doesn't mean just keeping it less than 80% full, it means blocking your ability to utilize 20% of the drive, keeping it as "spare" space to enhance performance and life (and you should still keep the drive less than 80% full, even if it is now technically 80% of 80%)

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post #15 of 18 Old 07-17-2013, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips, guys. I left my laptop on overnight on the log on screen with ~40 gig free and I could see SSD activity, hopefully for garbage collection.

As far as benchmarks go, I was just launching AS 4K write test for a bunch of seconds to see the speed and then aborted. Last check was giving me a relatively constant 5MB/s for ~20 seconds, which is already way better than I had with a more loaded disk.

Also, real life performance seems to have gotten better - I could paste a ~4GB file with almost constant 20MB/s write speed today. No extreme slow downs that used tohappen after 10 or so seconds.

Looks like I'll have to live with the drive, making sure that 30-40GB is empty. It works kinda fine like that. As soon as I'll be able to remove more data I'll try shrinking the partition by ~20GB too.

I gained a lot of insight about how SSDs work because of this whole thing. Next time I'll buy me a new gen one with some extra storage too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

The TRIM enabled firmware mentioned in the thread posted previously was available over two years ago. What OS is on that PC?

So you've done disk cleanups with CCleaner, or just Windows disk cleanup? Ever remove old restore points? Is the Recycle bin empty?

Yes, logoff the PC overnight while plugged in, that should cause any GC in the SSD to wake up.

It's Windows 7 64 bit, but the firmware upgrade available through Lenovo's firmware update software doesn't support TRIM - I installed it. Apparently it only improves wear leveling.
The method for guerilla-installing TRIM enabling software isn't working, it's crashing the installer before the update starts.

I'm sure TRIM is not working because it's greyed out in Crystal Disk info and HD Tune Pro.

I turned off restore points and the Recycle bin is empty, yes. I empty it manually every time I delete a file.

I did cleanups using Windows and then CCleaner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post


EDIT: Emptying the recycle bin should trigger GC/TRIM to kick in. Since it's a Samsung drive, what happens if you try to use the Samsung Magician software? Have you even tried it? D/L it and run the "Performance Optimization", which is a manual way of triggering and running GC/TRIM on your drive. The program will also allow you to PROPERLY over-provision your drive; that doesn't mean just keeping it less than 80% full, it means blocking your ability to utilize 20% of the drive, keeping it as "spare" space to enhance performance and life (and you should still keep the drive less than 80% full, even if it is now technically 80% of 80%)

The drive actually preceeds the 470. It's 2nd gen SSD from Samsung made in 2008 or 2009.
Thanks, didn't know there was Samsung's software for that. I'll try.

edit: Magician says it doesn't detect a Samsung SSD on my computer, so it doesn't work with my drive. I guess it's too old oO.
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post #16 of 18 Old 07-17-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

I am assuming your drive is a Samsung 470? All of the "older" SSD's, with few exceptions (i.e. X25-E), use MLC NAND that is not anywhere close to what we have now, and while current Samsung drives (the 830 256 in particular) are known for being THE most reliable drives in the consumer marketplace, that's due in large part to the use of their in-house Toggle NAND (and 3-core controller), which the drives preceding the 830 didn't use. That's not to say the 470 isn't reliable, it's just that you have to keep your expectations in check and realize that it isn't in the same league as current gen (i.e. Toggle NAND/eMLC/etc) SSD's.

Samsung's been selling SSDs to OEMs (Lenovo, Apple, etc) long before they entered the retail/consumer SSD market. This appears to be one of those.
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post #17 of 18 Old 07-17-2013, 07:36 PM
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Great insights from the other forum members!

If you haven't done so already, I'd also disable the Disk Defragmenter schedule, under Start>All Programs>Accessories>System Tools>DIsk Defragmenter

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post #18 of 18 Old 07-17-2013, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIX_ToRNaDo View Post

Great insights from the other forum members!

If you haven't done so already, I'd also disable the Disk Defragmenter schedule, under Start>All Programs>Accessories>System Tools>DIsk Defragmenter

Yeah, helped me a lot. I really appreciate all the feedback.

I turned off the defragmenter schedule. It's weird that it was on even though it's an SSD drive, and Windows doesn't defrag it (it "analyzes" it though).
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