[Tesla Motors] New York Times - Test Drive Fail - Page 11 - Overclock.net

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post #101 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

If you took any given hybrid, ripped out the batteries and electric motors, then replaced the ICE with a small turbo 4-banger, you'd have a lighter, cheaper, more reliable, vehicle that had similar or better performance and similar mileage.

Lithium-ion batteries aren't the answer. They are still too heavy and too bulky for their power density, and still don't have the durability or longevity needed to really compete with ICEs. Even in the most optimal of conditions, a Li-ion battery pack isn't going to last more than than 5-10 years, and they aren't cheap to replace.

When a real successor to Li-ion arrives, it's not going to matter much for hybrids, but it may well make pure electric cars viable.

I agree with Blame on this, turbo on something simple like my 98 civic LX would improve my mileage as long as I'm not acting like a race car driver lol

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post #102 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 02:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MAD_J View Post

Just so people know, Tesla Motors has been going after people who gave their car bad reviews, they sued Top gear for their review of the car.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TopGear/comments/18jha3/top_gears_response_to_teslas_accusations_from/

Its just a bad car, pure electric powered cars arent ready they dont have the range or enough charging locations and Tesla isn't ready to admit it.

*points to the many references to the Top Gear suit*

Yeah, everybody knows that and your comments suggest you haven't read the article or any of the responses.
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Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post

I agree with Blame on this, turbo on something simple like my 98 civic LX would improve my mileage as long as I'm not acting like a race car driver lol

The increased air flow detected by the MAF would just cause your car to add more gas. Also, that changes the exhaust which can hurt your gas mileage. The point of the turbo is to increase the acceleration without a MPG drop when cruising.

Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

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post #103 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 02:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kennyparker1337 View Post

Pretty expensive.

If you consider the fuel costs of a normal car.

.......SNIP

I conclude that base price and quality of parts is much more important than fuel efficiency.[/B]

I agree. By the way, did you know that the Toyota Prius' construction and assembly costs due to the Li-On batteries mined in Canada, shipped half-way around the world for machining and assembly in Japan, then back to the US/EMEA/Asia for final assembly and sale does more environmental damage than the car can "fix" in 9 years of driving an average of 25k miles a year. Hybrid my foot.

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post #104 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 02:38 PM
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say what?

I dont know cars at all, ive been told that it would increase my gas mileage, is this incorrect?

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post #105 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post

say what?

I dont know cars at all, ive been told that it would increase my gas mileage, is this incorrect?

Aftermarket turbos will, in almost all cases, decrease your MPG. That being said. If the engine is built from the ground up for a turbo, they do help with MPG.
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post #106 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 03:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post

say what?

I dont know cars at all, ive been told that it would increase my gas mileage, is this incorrect?

Not at all. Anybody who tells you otherwise is either lying, ignorant, or not telling you the downside of the situation where it actually can increase gas mileage.

The situation where it can increase mileage is when you add air without adding more gas. This causes a leaner mixture that produces more power due to more efficient burning. However, it also causes the temperature in the cylinder to increase, pressure in the cylinder to increase, and it makes it more likely for the engine to knock. Your car's computer will retard the timing when knocking occurs which will reduce power but save your engine from possibly blowing. To get the extra mileage you need the power caused by not retarding the timing in this situation. To deal with this you will likely need increase the octane of your gas and possibly upgrade the internal components as well.

If you get increased performance and gas mileage from added air then that is because of a fault in the design of the vehicle. You were either running richer than you needed to in the first place or your car could have benefited from increased timing. Companies would make things that way because running a little rich and with lower timings decreased the chance of a failure and lowers the requirements for the engine. A piece of your head gasket hanging a bit in the cylinder and getting hot has much less effect that way. Things of that nature.

I suppose the turbo running of the exhaust could cause a situation where you get increased low end torque and better gas mileage, but then again that would be because of the way the car was designed and not the turbo itself.
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Originally Posted by stcawthern View Post

Aftermarket turbos will, in almost all cases, decrease your MPG. That being said. If the engine is built from the ground up for a turbo, they do help with MPG.

Any proof? I've never seen any proof the help with actual MPG. It's always that they increase power on demand so that the vehicle can have the acceleration with a lower output when cruising. Though at this point I'm getting into a bit of semantics since what I mean is that the turbo isn't adding the mileage, but rather allowing for a design that gets better mileage without a person feeling like they are in a stock Chevette.

Edit: BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative when asking for proof. It's just the if you have a source you can quote I would be interested in seeing it because it would probably explain how and I'm curious about that kind of stuff.
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Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

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post #107 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 2002dunx View Post

Forty years ago when I was a kid, they said fusion was "just around the corner"..... don't hold your breath whilst waiting.

As for EV's, a niche product to make the done-good feel-good.

When I was a kid my home town had electric buses that were powered by overhead cables. Guess what diesel was cheaper....

We aren't getting anywhere in global terms till fusion power is plentiful and cheap.

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I agree completely ... especially about the "40 years ago when I was a kid part".

Back in the 70's when I was a 20-something, they told us that the world was going to run out of oil by the 80's. 30 years later, we still aren't out, and not only are we not out, it is STILL a cheaper form of energy than most other forms of power.


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post #108 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 04:04 PM
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I have seen many posts here stating the obvious that electricity is still majority fossil fuel dependent in its creation and that electric vehicles are as good at removing "green house gases" as praying to the magical environmental faeries to rid the world of CO2...tongue.gif

I really think we need to invest more into nuclear energy and off the grid solar arrays. The problem with it is that too many environmentalist who use the Japanese Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster and the Three Mile island event as a reason to not do nuclear at all. It has become political voting fodder to campaign against nuclear energy even though nuclear is more stable and more effective power source than anything else we have, of course with proper and regular monitoring, maintenance, and inspections of the nuclear plants. Nuclear energy by far would; first, rid us off spiking energy costs, and second remove our dependency on foreign oil and allow the other state actors to attain resources without more conflicts.

The other issue is with people trying to get more people owning "on the grid" solar arrays if too much power surplus is generated back to the grid it will be wasted and that would waste money, because the energy companies have no way to handle storing that much energy. Also, we cannot very well just turn off the turbine engines and emergency nonstop generators that constantly idle.

I say people need to invest in "off the grid" solar arrays and other off the grid alternatives like geothermal etc... The more people we take off the grid the less energy companies will need and the better off everyone will be. Of course this won't see the light of day until we get some new type of solar panel diodes that can take in full spectrum light and better energy storage solutions.

Here is the current statistics on energy generation in the United States from 2002-2012 from the EIA.. link.

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post #109 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 04:11 PM
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post #110 of 178 Old 02-15-2013, 04:14 PM
 
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I never trust mainstream papers with road tests of cars. They are all garbage. Evo, Car and Driver etc. are the only publications I trust when it comes to car reviews. All the others are just not in depth or informed enough.

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