[TH] Germany's Interior Minister Wants Backdoors In Cars, Digital Devices - Overclock.net

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post #1 of 38 Old 12-15-2017, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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According to a new report from German newspaper Redaktions Netzwerk Deutschland (RND), Germany’s Interior Minister, Thomas de Maizièr, has written a draft proposal in which he would like German cars, as well as other digital devices being sold in Germany, to grant police backdoor access. The minister is expected to present the proposal at next week’s Ministry of Interior conference.

Giving Police More Surveillance Powers

According to the RND report, the German minister would like intelligence agencies and police to gain “exclusive” access to cars, as well as digital devices such as computers, mobile devices, kitchen appliances, and smart TVs. The “back door” access would, in essence, allow the government to bypass the security protections some of these devices have. The police have been complaining that sometimes they can’t install intercept equipment on some cars because their security systems are “too good.”


Maizièr would also like cars and digital devices to have a “kill switch” the government can use at will to shut down certain devices, allegedly to stop cybercrime.

Source.


The emissions scandal wasn't enough to tarnish the industry apparently. doh.gif
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post #2 of 38 Old 12-15-2017, 03:49 PM
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Let's ignore any issues about privacy, probable cause, innocent until proven guilty (which I don't believe Germany's legal system even uses), and so on.

If a backdoor is created, a backdoor can be discovered. Any time these are implemented, a third-party will be able to discover and abuse these. Want to shutdown random cars on the Autobahn during rush hour? Go for it! Why not? The capabilities are there.

These never end well.

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post #3 of 38 Old 12-15-2017, 06:07 PM
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I mean, don't most modern cars have a government backdoor already? OnStar for example? All it takes is one call, and law enforcement can track or stop any GPS enabled vehicle.

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post #4 of 38 Old 12-15-2017, 06:17 PM
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Germany's interior minister is a shortsighted fascist technophobe.

If the police can do it, you damn well better believe thieves and and malware writers can do it faster and better...not that anyone in their right mind would want the police to have that power even if they could keep it to themselves.

...rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual. -- Thomas Jefferson
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post #5 of 38 Old 12-15-2017, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Source.


The emissions scandal wasn't enough to tarnish the industry apparently. doh.gif

See its stuff like this that I think is the real threat to the public, far more so than anything any corporation can do. With the power governments wield they can enact stuff like this by fiat and there is no recourse for the people. Companies may be able to rip you off (at the expense of their public relations) but governments can do the same and a lot more by using the almighty power of the law. At the end of the day, the government is NOT your "friend", yet so many people nowadays want MORE government involved in every aspect of their lives...
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post #6 of 38 Old 12-16-2017, 01:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Let's ignore any issues about privacy, probable cause, innocent until proven guilty (which I don't believe Germany's legal system even uses), and so on.

If a backdoor is created, a backdoor can be discovered. Any time these are implemented, a third-party will be able to discover and abuse these. Want to shutdown random cars on the Autobahn during rush hour? Go for it! Why not? The capabilities are there.

These never end well.

Extremely good point thumb.gif
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post #7 of 38 Old 12-16-2017, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

the government is NOT your "friend", yet so many people nowadays want MORE government involved in every aspect of their lives...

sigh rolleyes.gif

Accountability goes a long way for some, this guy not so much lol

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post #8 of 38 Old 12-16-2017, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Source.


The emissions scandal wasn't enough to tarnish the industry apparently. doh.gif

See its stuff like this that I think is the real threat to the public, far more so than anything any corporation can do. With the power governments wield they can enact stuff like this by fiat and there is no recourse for the people. Companies may be able to rip you off (at the expense of their public relations) but governments can do the same and a lot more by using the almighty power of the law. At the end of the day, the government is NOT your "friend", yet so many people nowadays want MORE government involved in every aspect of their lives...

The government is supposed to represent the people whereas companies represent themselves, that's a crucial difference. As I mentioned in the OP, some companies are not just 'ripping you off', they are willing to go so far as cheating regulations and contribute to global pollution, which kills hundreds of thousands of people every year. If that is not a serious misconduct of private entities, I don't know what is. Let me guess, not having the regulations that they cheated would have somehow led to a better outcome?

This isn't an all or nothing discussion and people shouldn't have a one track mind a priori about the need or not need for regulations. Some are good, some are bad, like everything else in life. Critical thinking is where we go into the detail of each, its rationale and then evaluate it.

Counterproductive proposals that don't understand the core of the problem, such as the one in the news in the OP, are objectively that, regardless of whether the entity proposing it is public or private. The reach of said proposals can be big if deployed by a government, but harmful actions and / or lobbying by private, multinational conglomerates can be just as bad, it all depends on their size and influence.
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post #9 of 38 Old 12-16-2017, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

See its stuff like this that I think is the real threat to the public, far more so than anything any corporation can do. With the power governments wield they can enact stuff like this by fiat and there is no recourse for the people. Companies may be able to rip you off (at the expense of their public relations) but governments can do the same and a lot more by using the almighty power of the law. At the end of the day, the government is NOT your "friend", yet so many people nowadays want MORE government involved in every aspect of their lives...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

The government is supposed to represent the people whereas companies represent themselves, that's a crucial difference. As I mentioned in the OP, some companies are not just 'ripping you off', they are willing to go so far as cheating regulations and contribute to global pollution, which kills hundreds of thousands of people every year. If that is not a serious misconduct of private entities, I don't know what is. Let me guess, not having the regulations that they cheated would have somehow led to a better outcome?

Way to completely avoid Majin's point.
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post #10 of 38 Old 12-16-2017, 05:29 AM
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Germany puts backdoor in cars.
2 days later, germany angry at US and Russia for tracking their government whereabouts.
This is going to be fun...
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