Ihatethedukes

My article is evidence for that post. To say one is wrong you claim the other is too. Plus, you're just wrong. If you can't see why, read the article again. I spent a few hours writing the retort to what you're saying and don't feel like writing it up in detail AGAIN.

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(Dr.) Bottlenecks: Or, How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Just Buy the GPU
Bottlenecks Re-examined: Lightmark an OpenGL Benchmark
Importance of CPU and GPU in HL2: Lost Coast benchmarks.

mariogreymist

Re: Dr. Bottlenecks: Or, How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Just Buy the GPU

<<Pic related.

Choggs396

Wow. If it took you a few hours to write a summarized repeat of your report, I don't want to even know how long it took you to write it initially.

I stand by what I say, which goes towards your original report and your post (because they are the exact same argument, just worded differently). If you had wanted to retort more effectively you would have countered my points more specifically then repeating the same (I'll be nice here) "stuff" you came up with in the first place.

The problem isn't my lack of understanding. Quite the opposite. I understand exactly what you are saying, I simply don't agree 100% (not on the actual data, of course - just on your opinion on the matter).

If you want to know exactly how I feel go back to my first post in this thread. It's pretty simply laid out, and there is no way I can simplify it more for you.

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ENTERPRISE

Very nice thread. I agree. I will buy a more piwerful GPU regardless of the CPU. as with a more powerful GPU you will still see an increase.

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Ihatethedukes

You seem unable to grasp that future games are still not going to need a new CPU except in extreme situations. (A 1600 Sempron or 3.0GHz P4)

Lets say that you've got a Pentium D rig at 4.2Ghz with an 8800gtx and it's capable of playing current games at ~120FPS @ 800x600 resolution. Most people would be SCREAMING at you to change your CPU. Your max FPS is 120 solely because your CPU is bottlenecking your GPU as pictured here.

However, your monitor is still holding it up at 60FPS regardless of what the other two can put out.


You'll notice AT NO POINT WILL THE CPU BECOME THE BOTTLENECK. Now, lets assume that the next games will want to run FOUR threads that are all equally as hard to run as the current one (as far cry to how it really will be). But now you have two cores to take advantage of, so... it doubles the processing power and quadruples the load for a net effect of half the frames per second. It now looks like this...



The CPU is STILL not the bottleneck, the monitor is.

Now, really, no new game will quadruple the CPU load. Though they might double the GPU load. That's feasible. Lets look at both situations then.




Well, now the GPU has become even MORE necessary and even MORE pressing than the CPU .... and that's compared to how important it already was. This makes my case EVEN BETTER, you need another GPU or to OC your GPU to keep your GPU from becoming the bottleneck. STILL NOT YOUR CPU! What's my point even BETTER? Dx10 is offloading more work onto the GPU making it an even BIGGER bottleneck.

Attached Thumbnails

       

__________________

(Dr.) Bottlenecks: Or, How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Just Buy the GPU
Bottlenecks Re-examined: Lightmark an OpenGL Benchmark
Importance of CPU and GPU in HL2: Lost Coast benchmarks.

Ihatethedukes

Yes, it is Such a good movie.

__________________

(Dr.) Bottlenecks: Or, How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Just Buy the GPU
Bottlenecks Re-examined: Lightmark an OpenGL Benchmark
Importance of CPU and GPU in HL2: Lost Coast benchmarks.

Choggs396

I find it so amazing you keep pressing a point that doesn't make my point invalid. At all.

__________________
Je pense, donc je suis
- René Descartes

Freedom gives people the ability to either succeed or to fail.
Ensuring success at the expense of freedom is nothing short of tyranny.

Overclock.net Professionalism Initiative

Ihatethedukes

Actually, it does. You just can't see it.

EDIT: Games are moving away from being CPU intensive. Graphics were offloaded to a specialized chip... now physics are being offloaded to physics cards anf GFX cards, more CPu load is being offloaded by DX10.... Now multithreaded games will make it easier on CPUs still by splitting the load. Your CPU has a lot of life left in it, especially if it's dual core.

You seem like you're really advocating a pretty bad line of logic. "Buy the CPU you'll need a year/year and a half down the line now, while it's more expensive and not see any benefit for a long long time." That's IF your CPU ever needs replaced. With the way things are going, you'll just need new add on cards. I do forsee, however, the need for more and more RAM. But that's a different story.

EDIT EDIT: You STILL don't understand that the GFX performance curve/monitor bottleneck is what you have to worry about. CPU loads are relatively linear, GFX are exponential.

__________________

(Dr.) Bottlenecks: Or, How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Just Buy the GPU
Bottlenecks Re-examined: Lightmark an OpenGL Benchmark
Importance of CPU and GPU in HL2: Lost Coast benchmarks.

Choggs396

A. You don't know that to be 100% true. You cannot tell the future.

B. Even if you are 100% right... at least the CPU won't need upgrading for quite a while.

C. How do you know that programmers wont exploit this "offloading" of the CPU (as you put it), to enhance the programming by utilizing that, now, "free" CPU processing ability? Answer: you don't.

__________________
Je pense, donc je suis
- René Descartes

Freedom gives people the ability to either succeed or to fail.
Ensuring success at the expense of freedom is nothing short of tyranny.

Overclock.net Professionalism Initiative

mariogreymist

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think my CPU does more than graphics. Does it not follow reasonably that the more resources a CPU has dedicated to graphics, the less it will have for processing the gameplay?

For instance, I see a difference in games like NWN2 and even Civ4 with my conroe over my D805...and the D805 @ 3.58ghz was certainly capable of the kind of performance you are talking about. As game envoronments become more complex, there are more data to process every second. This does not necessarily relate to graphics at all. Consider the following as a potential game: It has crappy on screen graphics...could be handled by most on-board processors. The game exists in a dynamic environment with many characters whose decisions are affected by what happens around them. Once game play begins, an unlimited player environment makes the first choice the proverbial butterfly effect begin. Now, what the GPU must do is relatively small, as the graphics are akin to Castle Wolfenstein. The processor still must track every entity in the game through potentially infinite off-screen interactions.

Add to that, the potential loads of multitasking, and it quickly becomes apparent that we can see performance jumps in games with increased processor throughput.

Or am I way off base?