[Guru3d]Dual vs Quad Scaling in Games - Page 8 - Overclock.net

Choggs396 · 05-18-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coma

In any case, you cannot generalize the eye as seeing any number of frames per sec as different parts of the eye "refresh" at different frequencies.

For example, look at a CRT screen directly, and then look at something else so that the CRT is at the side of your view.

Looking directly, you won't see the flicker or only see a little bit. Looking at it from the side, you'll clearly see the screen flickering.

This is because the eye has a higher concentration of rods in the sides. Rods are the parts that see motion.
The center has less rods and more of the thing-I-can't-remember that sees color.

Are you thinking of cones?

Nick226 · 05-18-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlocke

I stopped reading the review when they said <30FPS = Very Limited Gameplay.

Wrong on so many levels.. even 15FPS is playable.

are you kidding me? lol 15FPS is a waste of time, you cant fully enjoy at all at 30FPS, hence, very limited. for me at least. i need like a stable 40 - 50 frames to experience the game.

rx7speed · 05-18-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coma

Incorrect. Google "how much fps can the eye see?" or "can the eye only see 24 fps?" or something like that.

Also, you use the NTSC/ATSC's 29.97 fps as a basis for your argument. How would you explain PAL's 25 fps, then?

In any case, you cannot generalize the eye as seeing any number of frames per sec as different parts of the eye "refresh" at different frequencies.

For example, look at a CRT screen directly, and then look at something else so that the CRT is at the side of your view.

Looking directly, you won't see the flicker or only see a little bit. Looking at it from the side, you'll clearly see the screen flickering.

This is because the eye has a higher concentration of rods in the sides. Rods are the parts that see motion.
The center has less rods and more of the thing-I-can't-remember that sees color.

Because of this, some animals can see more "fps" than we can.
For example, you could be sitting on an airplane and see at a hawk flying below.
While you may see a blur, another hawk sitting on the plane's wing (hypothetically) could see the other hawk clearly.

Video appears fluid because of motion blur. Games don't have motion blur, and those that do (like Crysis) can stutter or drop to low FPS *while* simulating the motion blur, so it doesn't actually solve anything.

You would need a decently high FPS for motion blur to appear real. Otherwise, you'll just be irritated at not being able to see anything.

I can easily agree with your refresh rate arguement. on a crt screen at anything below around 70-75hz bothers me even head on when I look at it at an angle it is even worse.

bionh · 05-18-08

It should be noted that the value of 29.97 frames is an AVERAGE. There will be people who can detect higher FPS levels naturally, through better eyesight.

Also, as we all know, humans get better at things with experience; someone who spends a great deal of time playing PC games will tend to be able to detect higher frame rates than someone who does not.

Combine above-average eyesight and a lot of time staring at a monitor, and this number for detectable frame rate can increase quite a bit.

trueg50 · 05-18-08

Wow, they missed the greatest CPU killing game out there; Supreme Commander.

Here is my test.

I run Ortho's on all cores, and can play COD4 just fine, no discernable difference.

I try running Supreme Commander with BOINC (F@H sort of program, stress's 10% less than Ortho's does) and my frame rate drops for something like 30 FPS, down to probably 10 - 15.

rx7speed · 05-19-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by bionh

It should be noted that the value of 29.97 frames is an AVERAGE. There will be people who can detect higher FPS levels naturally, through better eyesight.

Also, as we all know, humans get better at things with experience; someone who spends a great deal of time playing PC games will tend to be able to detect higher frame rates than someone who does not.

Combine above-average eyesight and a lot of time staring at a monitor, and this number for detectable frame rate can increase quite a bit.

29.97 is not the average. that is what is used with NTSC programming.

all that number comes from is what tv's run at here in the states. doesn't mean that is all we can see.

if you understand a little of how TV's and eyes work you would know that the only reason tv's look so smooth at that frame rate is all due to them having motion blur.
that blur around the edges make it to where the mind will see it as solid motion.

without that motion blur and instead having hard images you don't see fluid motion. instead you see the lag there and notice that each frame has issues.

so your info there is quite wrong there and based only upon what speed broadcast are not in truth of what the eyes are capable of seeing.

FuNkDrSpOt · 05-19-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coma

Incorrect. Google "how much fps can the eye see?" or "can the eye only see 24 fps?" or something like that.

Also, you use the NTSC/ATSC's 29.97 fps as a basis for your argument. How would you explain PAL's 25 fps, then?

In any case, you cannot generalize the eye as seeing any number of frames per sec as different parts of the eye "refresh" at different frequencies.

For example, look at a CRT screen directly, and then look at something else so that the CRT is at the side of your view.

Looking directly, you won't see the flicker or only see a little bit. Looking at it from the side, you'll clearly see the screen flickering.

This is because the eye has a higher concentration of rods in the sides. Rods are the parts that see motion.
The center has less rods and more of the thing-I-can't-remember that sees color.

Because of this, some animals can see more "fps" than we can.
For example, you could be sitting on an airplane and see at a hawk flying below.
While you may see a blur, another hawk sitting on the plane's wing (hypothetically) could see the other hawk clearly.

Video appears fluid because of motion blur. Games don't have motion blur, and those that do (like Crysis) can stutter or drop to low FPS *while* simulating the motion blur, so it doesn't actually solve anything.

You would need a decently high FPS for motion blur to appear real. Otherwise, you'll just be irritated at not being able to see anything.

Never once in my life have i heard that rods can see motion while cones do not. Do you have some type of evidence for that?

From what I've been taught, the only difference between rods and cones is that, aside from collecting data about color, rods are better designed for nightvision. In fact, your eye is saturated with rods too but the rods main chemical, rhodopson, is broken down by light.

nitd_kim · 05-28-08

if ur gettin around 20 fps and lower in a first person shooter game, ur probably going to experience stuttering and that makes it an unpleasant exp. fps drops = death and these drops happen everytime there is enemy o_o

OmegaNemesis28 · 05-28-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitd_kim

if ur gettin around 20 fps and lower in a first person shooter game, ur probably going to experience stuttering and that makes it an unpleasant exp. fps drops = death and these drops happen everytime there is enemy o_o

wake the dead?

XFreeRollerX · 05-28-08

Yeah, because there is really a 'border' at 3.2 ghz?

*looks at 4.28 ghz cpu*

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[Guru3d]Dual vs Quad Scaling in Games

05-18-08	#74 (permalink)
bionh New to Overclock.net Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 72 Rep: 2 Unique Rep: 2 Trader Rating: 0	It should be noted that the value of 29.97 frames is an AVERAGE. There will be people who can detect higher FPS levels naturally, through better eyesight. Also, as we all know, humans get better at things with experience; someone who spends a great deal of time playing PC games will tend to be able to detect higher frame rates than someone who does not. Combine above-average eyesight and a lot of time staring at a monitor, and this number for detectable frame rate can increase quite a bit.

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