[Fud] Drop single-core Celeron for dual Atom - Page 3 - Overclock.net

sLowEnd · 07-04-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by spice003

i was actually pleased with my atom 330. it was fast enough for what i was using it for. you can't expect it to encode HD video for you in 30min.

Yeah but I do expect it to be even cheaper than what it is, considering it only costs intel like $6 per chip and the performance is worse than a Celeron.

Intel is milking this thing lol

mothergoose729 · 07-04-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manyak

Not quite.

The main reason that the Atom is extremely power efficient is because they took a lot of instructions and emulated them in software. For example, the command for multiply could be turned into a loop of additions (instead of 3*3, do 3+3+3). Obviously they didn't do that with the multiply command, but they did do it to a lot of other, more complex instructions.

If you look at only the basic instruction set - standard x86/x64 instructions - yes it will be about 75% the speed of an E1200. But if you look at the FPU/ALU and all the extensions added over the years like SSE/SSE2/etc, you're looking at only about 30% of the speed.

This means two things:
1: The E1200 is more cost beneficial in terms of performance. Unlike the Atom, it can actually handle really large flash animations, HD video, and some more demanding video games. And compressing and uncompressing files takes a fraction of the time it does on the Atom. I don't know about the prices that OEMs get their parts at, but at retail an E1200+MB combo costs only $20 more than a dual core atom board. Which is peanuts considering that even the average user will get a lot more out of it.

2: If someone gets one of those cheap nettops as their main PC, they will have to upgrade it more often to keep up with more demanding and resource-intensive apps. With a standard LGA775 Celeron PC, instead of upgrading the entire system in a year or two they'll be able to find a used Pentium Dual/Quad and be able to double their RAM for less than half the price of a new PC. And it will still end up more powerful than the low end systems then. But with an Atom they'll be forced to upgrade the entire system - and much more frequently. This does nothing but translate into more sales for Intel in the long run, which is all they care about.

Atoms are great for netbooks because they allow for many hours of battery life without needing to weigh anywhere near as much. But it does absolutely NOTHING for a desktop.

The problem is that current technology is far out pacing consumer demands and expectations. When most people get a computer the most complicated thing they plan on doing is running a program like itunes, while downloading from lime wire, at the same time as viewing a video in HD on youtube. Coupled with a proper IGP the atom can handle light gaming and full HD movies, making it perfect for 95% of all the consumer anywhere. You have to look at it like this:

Most people have neither the desire nor the technical know how to do any video encoding or editing on their computers. A bit more common but still a very small minority; audio encoding and photo editing are all possible on a dual core atom with a proper graphics chipset.

Nobody but folders care what a desktop/consumer OEM product does with mathematic and scientific applications.

Something like 86% of game sales are for console systems. Of the 14% that are for the PC, a sizable chunk of that is devoted to simple mom and pop games like bejeweled, and low demand MMORPG's such as WOW. And this has very little to do with piracy. That is just the market.

A person with a dual core atom and ion chipset would likely not know the difference between their machine and a full blown i7 given what they do on a day to day basis. While the atom is a big step backward for performance, it is a huge cash cow for intel given the current market and technical demands of your average folk (you know, people who could almost replace their desktop with a smart phone) Small, cheap, stylish atom desktops will make intel billions. It is the largest and one of the most untapped parts of the market. It has the potential to become the "model T" of computing. And with further R&D and continued die shrinks, it won't be long until atoms can find their way into cell phones, cars, televisions, tee-shirts, hell who knows. With next to zero competition from AMD or VIAO in this regard, atom can and probably will sweep the market until a real competitor emerges or consumer demands evolve.

Fear the atom

Manyak · 07-04-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tator Tot

Yes & No Manyak.

While almost all your points are correct, couple the Atom 230 w/ a 9400, or 8400, or HD3450 GPU and it will handle 1080p playback just fine.

True, but a) you'd still have to pay for a GPU so it would end up cheaper to just get a Celeron and stick with intel's onboard graphics, and b) if OEMs are going to use smaller, more enticing boxes like Intel is suggesting, there won't be any room for a GPU in there.

Of course we can argue about part B all you want since it's just speculation, but no matter which way you look at it the Celeron is a much wiser option for the consumer when it comes to desktops.

Tator Tot · 07-05-09

No, Manyak, the MiniITX ION platform has a 9400 on it. And uses less power than the Atom system as a whole while being better.

And right now, if I was to go to Newegg and pick up an E1200 & G45 board it would be close to $160.

While the ION is only $70 with PSU. ($50 without.)

WhiteCrane · 07-05-09

atom cant even do youtube on HQ

sLowEnd · 07-05-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tator Tot

No, Manyak, the MiniITX ION platform has a 9400 on it. And uses less power than the Atom system as a whole while being better.

And right now, if I was to go to Newegg and pick up an E1200 & G45 board it would be close to $160.

While the ION is only $70 with PSU. ($50 without.)

The cheapest ION board I can find is $150

o.o

Where can you get a $70 ION system?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteCrane

atom cant even do youtube on HQ

Really? Youtube HD maybe, but Youtube HQ is pretty low power stuff.

Tator Tot · 07-05-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sLowEnd

The cheapest ION board I can find is $150

o.o

Where can you get a $70 ION system?

Newegg had them for awhile, but it seems the prices went way up?

Though, it seems alot of computer stuff has been going up in price &/or out of stock.

Just the other day I saw my board go from $70+ Shipping to almost $230+ shipping.

Manyak · 07-05-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tator Tot

No, Manyak, the MiniITX ION platform has a 9400 on it. And uses less power than the Atom system as a whole while being better.

And right now, if I was to go to Newegg and pick up an E1200 & G45 board it would be close to $160.

While the ION is only $70 with PSU. ($50 without.)

Yeah, but it's not a guarantee that OEMs are going to use it.

But you need to check your prices again....the ION boards are around $150, the regular atom boards are around $80, and you don't need a G45 for the lowest end computer so even an E1400+G31 = $90.

Tator Tot · 07-05-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manyak

Yeah, but it's not a guarantee that OEMs are going to use it.

But you need to check your prices again....the ION boards are around $150, the regular atom boards are around $80, and you don't need a G45 for the lowest end computer so even an E1400+G31 = $90.

In you every day computing an E1200 (for clock speed purposes) & G45 would be a more accurate comparison. As the x3100 struggels to even do "High Quality" or "HD" youtube playback. Which many people choose now a days.

sLowEnd · 07-05-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tator Tot

In you every day computing an E1200 (for clock speed purposes) & G45 would be a more accurate comparison. As the x3100 struggels to even do "High Quality" or "HD" youtube playback. Which many people choose now a days.

As crappy as intel's integrated graphics are, I'll have to disagree with you there.
The X3100 is actually capable of running youtube HD smoothly. It's a very common IGP and several people I know have it.

Btw, G45 motherboards have never really been that cheap for whatever reason. G31/G35 boards are a lot cheaper (Like $30 cheaper)

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[Fud] Drop single-core Celeron for dual Atom

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