saulin

That would get rid of the whole licencing issue. Or simply just pay up like I said. Up the card prices $5, is not like they haven't upped the price by $20-30 in some cards already and enjoy it

Is all about money! If ATI thinks they are winning by simply not doing anything to get PhysX support working the way is meant to be used they are not winning. As much as some of you think PhysX is not a big deal, it is a feature that does sell cards out there.

You put a big logo on the box and some pictures showing no physx vs physx and it will sell.

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sLowEnd

That's not going to happen though. It's not a smart business move by Nvidia to merely impose a 1-time fee.

ATI upped prices to offset increased manufacturing costs resulting from TSMC messing up their 40nm yields, not to pricerape customers.

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=654

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CAHOP240

ATI isn't trying to come up with their 'own' standard. They're trying to develop an open standard that will work with both Nvidia and ATI cards which is how things should be. You say its all about money right? Why should ATI pay Nvidia $5 dollars for every ATI card sold? That's a bad business move. They're doing the smart thing by coming up with an open standard thats free and can be used by both sides. That way consumers get to have real looking physics in a game and ATI doesn't help pad their competitors wallets.

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Afrodisiac

I just don't understand your argument saulin.

Nvidia pulls some propriety crap out of their ass, puts it on Batman and now ATI is evil for not paying them for it?

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saulin

Nvidia bought the technology. They paid good money for it. They implemented it on their cards and made it better. It's the best way to do physics. Since they paid for it they won't let the competition use it for free. ATI does not want to pay Nvidia nothing to use it and preffers not to use it.

It slows down development because even though it has great potential and it's beneficial for games, developers if they implenet it on every game will lose sales from customers that can't use it.

So they use it only in few games and/or don't use it to it's full potential.

Could ATI have worked something out with nvidia? yes. But instead they talk trash about PhysX and say how the industry needs this instead.

Is ATI really helping here? Nope, they really care more about what they pocket and not about what their customers get. A fine example is how ATI talks about new cards and new cards but doesn't really put more attention to the software support for these cards.

So in their minds. New cards will sell, yeah we have DX11 etc... but they really don't seem to want to fix the performance issues that the new cards have. Or do they? and How long more will it take?

So is that evil? Mmmm it's just business. They care about what they get in their pockets more than what their customers actually get.

Wasn't there an article about Nvidia already adding Fermi support to linux drivers? This to me looks more like something customers will apreciate once the card hits retail. Software support for the hardware is as important as the hardware itself.

So no. ATI is not evil it's simply that they are not really thinking about what is best for their customers but what is best for them. Any customer that wants PhysX so bad or really cares about it knows not to get ATI.

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Afrodisiac

And your contradiction here:

You have a double standard don't you? If it slows down game development and has so much potential, then Nvidia is just as guilty for not making it free as ATI is for not paying for it.

PhysX is pointless, that's why it's only used in a few games. Believe me, if it were something that was worth a crap, it would be used more often.

"Working something out with Nvidia" generally means paying them through your nose, and AMD is in no position to be paying their competition to use their propriety software.

Again, the same double standard as you displayed above. Is Nvidia really helping by keeping PhysX locked down? No. They only care about their pockets.

New cards perform fine.

Not only in their minds, the HD5 series are actually selling very well.

And tell me how Nvidia doesn't? Locking game features for people who don't use Nvidia products; that's absolutely pathetic. You should really open your eyes.

Hey, cool, then I can use Fermi for my awesome PhysX support when I play games on Linux. Oh wait. Oops.

Wrong. Just because ATI is not paying Nvidia for their propriety software does not mean they don't care about their customers.

Tell me if ATI/AMD paying their competitor to use their propriety software is a smart business move?

Probably the same people who think GTX 260s and 275s are better than 4890s and so pay more for them and give Nvidia great profit.

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tombom

hurf arguments

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Team Fortress 2 Club

Mygaffer

Since when is it the hardware vendor's job to write code for a game? That is a ridiculous statement. Anyway, AMD says they offered before and after.

Anyway, you can label this thread whatever you want, but I guarantee you in a year from now Physx will be dead.

What is a developer going to put in their game. A proprietary physics engine that only runs on half the cards out there? Or an open physics engine that will run on ALL DX11 hardware. Obviously the latter.

Face it, Phsyx is going to go the way of the dodo. One years time come back and tell me just how many games are being released with Physx support.

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saulin

Again Nvidia will not make it free. They paid for it.

PhysX is not pointless and it's only used in few PC games because of ATI but look at how many console and handhled devices use it. So don't go blaming Nvidia there.

Nothing AMD says or does will really change things. Like I said, PhysX will die only if developers actually come up with something better.

Nvidia amd AMD both only care about their pockets. The difference is that Nvidia does offer a little more.

New cards perform fine? But they have not hit their potential and won't for who knows how long because for ATI the software support is not really priority. I mean I already posted links to hardware reviewers that say a lot about ATIs drivers these days.

The HD5800 series is not selling that well considering they are not making that many.

Look at how many games are out there that are labeled TWIMTBP. That should tell you that Nvidia is doing something better than ATI. Perhaps they are working much closer with the developers.

Fermi is not out yet but software support should be fine once it comes out for the looks of it.

And like I said. Anyone that wants PhysX that bad knows not to get ATI. So if anything ATI is just losing potential customers.

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Afrodisiac

Wait, consoles and handheld devices use Nvidia PhysX(TM)?

They don't need to say anything. You said yourself that support for PhysX is very low for PC games, so obviously AMD is correctly combatting it by not caring about it.

Actually, right now, ATI offers better bang for buck.

They spend too much time making video cards to try and buy game developers and make pointless propriety software to keep their competitors from using Anti Aliasing.

They're not making enough to meet demand, meaning they are selling very well. Get that through your skull.

Yes, Nvidia is paying game developers much better than ATI is. I know an Nvidia fanboy just like you who claims TWIMTBP is a result of "Nvidia working closely with game developers to ensure their hardware gets the best support possible". No matter what you call it, it doesn't change the fact that they simply have more money and use it to hinder ATI cards in many TWIMTBP games (although a 5870 beats a GTX 295 even in TWIMTBP).

Cool story bro. Relevance?

Here's the thing:

- Very few games use PhysX
- ATI HD5* demand is so high it outstripped production rates
- ATI is losing customers?

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