htpc to connect through "budget audiophile" setup - Page 3 - Overclock.net

grip_racer · 06-29-09

^I would get a Coax/Optical DAC over a USB. Much lower jitter, higher sampling rates.

poprhetor · 06-29-09

I appreciate it, guys. I'll be looking. Soloz2, I'll PM you sooner than later for the coupon for those speakers. I'll probably just snag them while I can and then get the crossovers a little later.

**soloz2** · 06-29-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by poprhetor

I appreciate it, guys. I'll be looking. Soloz2, I'll PM you sooner than later for the coupon for those speakers. I'll probably just snag them while I can and then get the crossovers a little later.

ygpm. That would be my advise to you. Get the speakers now and see how you like them. The Ninja crossovers use the exact same values so they will just open the speakers up quite a bit and take everything they do to the next level, but the overall sound signature will remain the same. Get the speakers now, set them up and burn them in. If you hate them (I highly doubt you will) return them under the 30 day trial. If you love them (I think you will) then start saving for the ninja crossovers and no-rez.

grip_racer · 07-01-09

orrrrrrr...(i have to say it)

build your own Ninja replicas. Get the same superior sound, for less money. Crossovers are super-easy to assemble(especially because you already know the values you need), and the parts on the Ninjas are not hard to find. You could probably build Ninja-Masters for nearly the price of Ninja-Elites.

the biggest difference between the Masters and Elites is the little Sprague Vitamin-Q bypass caps. They are plentiful on eBay.

**soloz2** · 07-01-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by grip_racer

orrrrrrr...(i have to say it)

build your own Ninja replicas. Get the same superior sound, for less money. Crossovers are super-easy to assemble(especially because you already know the values you need), and the parts on the Ninjas are not hard to find. You could probably build Ninja-Masters for nearly the price of Ninja-Elites.

the biggest difference between the Masters and Elites is the little Sprague Vitamin-Q bypass caps. They are plentiful on eBay.

for the ELT525 series all the values are the same, so it would be easy. I haven't had the chance to open up one of my speakers to look at the values and add up the cost to see which way would be cheaper.

grip_racer · 07-02-09

I can't imagine that it would be more expensive in any case to build something rather than buy it prebuilt.

For 2 Master crossovers, Onix ref.1:
16awg Goertz inductors: $12.50x4, $18.00x4
Sonicaps: $28.60x2, $17.45x2, $15.80x2
Mills wirewound: $4.00x6
wire+solder: $5.00

total: $271.70, plus maybe $10 for shipping all of that. $280. Thats $50 cheaper than the regular ninjas, and nearly $180 cheaper than the Masters. Even with their -$65 "build it yourself" option, you're still at $115 savings. Welcome to audio companies and ridic. profit margins.

Solution? For me at least, I never buy pre-built retail audio electronics, unless they are used and at a price I can't beat by building.

**soloz2** · 07-02-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by grip_racer

I can't imagine that it would be more expensive in any case to build something rather than buy it prebuilt.

For 2 Master crossovers, Onix ref.1:
16awg Goertz inductors: $12.50x4, $18.00x4
Sonicaps: $28.60x2, $17.45x2, $15.80x2
Mills wirewound: $4.00x6
wire+solder: $5.00

total: $271.70, plus maybe $10 for shipping all of that. $280. Thats $50 cheaper than the regular ninjas, and nearly $180 cheaper than the Masters. Even with their -$65 "build it yourself" option, you're still at $115 savings. Welcome to audio companies and ridic. profit margins.

Solution? For me at least, I never buy pre-built retail audio electronics, unless they are used and at a price I can't beat by building.

that's not really an apples to apples comparison.
16awg Goertz inductors: $12.50x4, $18.00x4 not the same ones used, Ninja uses Alpha Core copper foil inductors
sonicaps, do you know the values needed, or for that matter the values the ninja crossover uses?
mills resistors, same question as for the sonicaps.
You can't purchase quality wire for $5 in the amount needed to replace all the internal wiring, let alone a high quality silver based solder.
You're not replacing any other caps
You haven't factored in any other costs such as material to build the crossover on, standoffs and screws/glue

And that doesn't even factor in that the Reference 1 crossovers have been redesigned by Danny Richie of GR Research so he gets a royalty. Replacing the stock components with better ones will surely yield a better Ref 1, but it is not the same as the Ninja crossover.
Also, don't forget the defraction begone, which adds another $60 to the price if you purchase it separately.

So, by the time you add up the incidentals, tweeter surrounds, and acknowledge that not only are the parts upgraded in the Ninja crossovers, but the crossovers themselves are an upgrade...and multiply the figure for wire/solder by at least 10x you've reached about what the Ninja charges, maybe a little less, but no where near as simplistic as you make it out to be.

I'm all for DIY, and even for saving a dollar or two, but you've got to compare apples to apples. And don't lead astray those who don't know any better.

Danny Richie designed the crossover for the ELT525 series for av123, and the Ninja kept all the original values so you could open up one of the speakers write down the values and upgrade yourself.

grip_racer · 07-02-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloz2

that's not really an apples to apples comparison.
16awg Goertz inductors: $12.50x4, $18.00x4 not the same ones used, Ninja uses Alpha Core copper foil inductors
sonicaps, do you know the values needed, or for that matter the values the ninja crossover uses?
mills resistors, same question as for the sonicaps.
You can't purchase quality wire for $5 in the amount needed to replace all the internal wiring, let alone a high quality silver based solder.
You're not replacing any other caps
You haven't factored in any other costs such as material to build the crossover on, standoffs and screws/glue

And that doesn't even factor in that the Reference 1 crossovers have been redesigned by Danny Richie of GR Research so he gets a royalty. Replacing the stock components with better ones will surely yield a better Ref 1, but it is not the same as the Ninja crossover.
Also, don't forget the defraction begone, which adds another $60 to the price if you purchase it separately.

So, by the time you add up the incidentals, tweeter surrounds, and acknowledge that not only are the parts upgraded in the Ninja crossovers, but the crossovers themselves are an upgrade...and multiply the figure for wire/solder by at least 10x you've reached about what the Ninja charges, maybe a little less, but no where near as simplistic as you make it out to be.

I'm all for DIY, and even for saving a dollar or two, but you've got to compare apples to apples. And don't lead astray those who don't know any better.

Danny Richie designed the crossover for the ELT525 series for av123, and the Ninja kept all the original values so you could open up one of the speakers write down the values and upgrade yourself.

haha, you are dense. of course I used the EXACT same values and parts from the Ninja Masters for my calculations. because I am not dense.

oh, they're not Goertz? Goertz is Alpha-Core's line of inductors, used in Ninja Master crossovers.

Sorry, I'll factor in $10 for wire, screws, glue, etc. You can pick up pure, solid, +- copper wire at Home Depot for $0.23 per foot.

So now we are at $285 for the pair. You're right, I simply forgot glue and screws. Still at $100 saved.

The diffraction-be-gone is a $50 add-on, so it's not even relevant to my argument of a pair of crossovers.

I do not lead astray, I simply lead through research. It is exactly as simplistic as I make it out to be. So please, do some research into my statements before you make a fool of yourself (by accusing me of not comparing the same parts, and leading people astray).

I expected better form from you, but I am mistaken.

**soloz2** · 07-02-09

@ grip

First of all you never specified that you knew the values used in the Ninja Ref 1 crossovers, which are not publicly posted so you should have specified if you had that information.

Second, even $10 won't cover cables/solder, and the touchstone tweeter surrounds are included in the ninja crossovers so they are relevant.

Get a Grip man, there's no need to lash out at someone over a misunderstanding!

grip_racer · 07-02-09

I apologize, I over-reacted. I just don't tolerate being falsely accused.

$10 certainly covers wire and solder if you consider the lengths and amounts used.

As for the tweeter surrounds, high density wool felt can be bought for about $10 per square yard. Seeing as you would only need less than a square-foot (even if you were to stack pieces of cut felt on top of each other to get the correct thickness), it would be less than $5 for two. Also, with buying the felt yourself, you could select the color that you want.

$290. Still almost $100 in savings.

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htpc to connect through "budget audiophile" setup

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