Shiobock

According to the manufacturers specifications, my current Audio Pro Stage 44's frequency range goes as low as 35Hz. I find it rather hard to believe that a regular sized bookshelf speaker like this could any way let out that low frequencies at audible levels. Is there any sort of a limit I should consider "enough" for small to regular sized bookshelf speakers, like 50Hz or something?

Anyhow I'm looking for sub 400$ speakers to be used with PC, so they'll be rather close to the listener. At the hi-fi stores my budget got snickered at and they instantly recommended me some 600$ Dali Lektors and B&W's. Naturally I took everything they said with a huge sack of salt after the initial impression, I'm nowhere as elitist as them and could settle for less.

After going through few stores and listening Lektor 1's, Diamond 10.1's, 685's and Tangent Clarity 4's at my friends place, I couldn't tell a world of difference between them, and they all sounded very neat. However all of them expect the Diamond 10.1's are out of my price range.. Enter the Tangent EVO E5. Now I understand they're not nearly as known or recommended as Diamond 10.1's, but they're a bit cheaper (260$ vs 330$), they IMO look slightly better and even though I didn't get to audition them, I've read some very positive comments about them, and they got four stars in What Hi-Fi so that can't be a bad thing. Could they really be that bad, as one of the salesmen said, when he told me to buy a pair of Dali Lektors instead? It feels like I'd want to buy and force myself to be satisfied with them just out of spite, but I'm really tempted by their low price, good reviews and looks, too. I mean, isn't this cute or what? If the low range isn't enough for my relatively modest music listening needs, I can always support them with a small subwoofer.

tagurtoast

ooh they look like some little speakers with a punch

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Hi

tUDJ

I think you should stick with what you've demo'd (or can demo). If you can afford the 10.1 and like them, why not buy them? I understand that you're trying to get the best for the money but I think you'd be better off trusting your ears than trusting the internet reviews.

If the newer 10.1 anything as good as the 9.1 I think you'd be hard pushed to do better for the price.

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Audio Rig:
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Shiobock

This is mostly what I've been thinking, and the price difference between the EVO and 10.1 isn't that much either, so might as well go with them (although spending more for an incremental increase in performance usually sounds horrible to me). I'll be looking if I can find a way to listen to the EVO's somehow, but if I can't I'll go with the Diamonds.

soloz2

do you have an amp?

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Current Sound: SA tweaked Auzen X-Fi Prelude > SA Reference IC > Musical Paradise MP-301 6v6 tube amp> Tekton Designs 4.1 single driver loudspeakers

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Shiobock

Onkyo TX-SR507, yes. Just got it to replace my ages old Yamaha-something, was the cheapest HDMI repeater I could find.

grip_racer

You are going in the right direction by getting smaller, higher quality bookshelves rather than bigger floorstanders with more/cheaper components.

I actually don't concern myself much at all with the bass output of my main speakers. MUCH more critical is the midrange. Optimally, you want your mains to have midranges that can do the entire 100hz-10khz spectrum, and then be supported by good tweeters and subwoofers. This way, the entire midrange (the absolute most critical range to good sound, and most overlooked by current consumers) is untouched by a crossover, and you still get those exciting lows and highs. Midrange is the key to natural and properly imaged sound.

For example, I have an inexpensive and unassuming pair of Pinnacle AC400s, which have a 4" coated paper woofer and a .75" mylar tweeter. No expensive drivers here. However, they are crossed over at 5khz, which leaves a much greater part of the midrange untouched than the typical 2-way speaker that is crossed over around 2khz. They also have good crossovers and thick, well-damped enclosures (which you would never know by looking at them). The result is that they are my favorite sounding speakers that I own, when reinforced with my 8" sub. This realization has led me to focus on a set of full-range speakers as the next ones I'll buy.

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Audio System:
Cigar Box CS4397 DAC (direct-out) ->
1. Dual-Mono Gainclone Amplifier -> Celestion F15 / Pinnacle AC400 / Advent AS2 / Bose 301 Series II (depending on the day )
2. 100w RMS Plate Amp, C/O @ 80hz -> Elemental Designs 9Kv.2 (vented, 23hz tuning)

Shiobock

Ah, good information once again! Yeah I pretty much ditched the floorstanders because I couldn't audition any of those which were on my pricerange, and I doubt they would've been of too high quality either. And then I begun thinking that since the bookshelf speakers have so little enclosures there's no point in thinking that the sub-50Hz range would be audible at all in most cases, and I'll have to reinforce the sound with a subwoofer no matter what bookshelfs I'm getting. Now I'm just trying to think that do I want to get the cheap Tangent EVO E5s or Wharfedale Diamond 10.1s, or should I buy something bit more decent in the form of Tangent Clarity 4s or Diamond 10.2s. The EVO's crossover frequency is a 4KHz and the Diamonds are at 1,6KHz for 10.1 and 1,8KHz for 10.2, I don't know of the Clarity's tho, but at the cheaper price point it sounds like the EVO's would be a better choice according to specifications..

grip_racer

Those EVOs look excellent.

One more thing about great audio, before you buy. This may change your outlook on things.

High-efficiency speakers allow the use of low-power amplifiers with extremely simple topologies, and most importantly, no negative feedback. Virtually all amplifiers over about 30 watts per channel employ this technique to raise power output, as well as all op-amps (I can't stand op-amps). While amps with negative feedback look excellent when tied to dummy loads for spec sheet testing, it's a totally different story when a NFB amplifier is connected to a speaker. There's a very long description of the interaction between them on the web if you wish to further research this, but basically, NFB amps introduce small temporal (and other) distortions, taking away from realism and naturalness.

For the best sound possible, employ a high-efficiency full-range unit for the 100-10khz band, support it on either end with tweeters of equal efficiency, and a self-amplified fast and efficient subwoofer or two (in stereo if you have the means). Power it with a single ended triode or class A transistor amplifier of similar design, and take into account room interaction. Do not employ op-amp gain stages. Use the most minimal crossover you can get away with on the tweeters.

One more thing: If you are reinforcing with a subwoofer, low Xmax midwoofer/fullranges will sound better than ones with more Xmax as a general rule.


So, just think about this ideal when you're shopping. You don't have to follow it because it can be expensive. Just use it as a reference when considering components.

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Audio System:
Cigar Box CS4397 DAC (direct-out) ->
1. Dual-Mono Gainclone Amplifier -> Celestion F15 / Pinnacle AC400 / Advent AS2 / Bose 301 Series II (depending on the day )
2. 100w RMS Plate Amp, C/O @ 80hz -> Elemental Designs 9Kv.2 (vented, 23hz tuning)

Shiobock

Sounds complicated, but I guess I gotta get my hands dirty with this.

The idea of supporting the bookshelfs with two extra woofers or subwoofers (which would be placed next to or directly under the speakers themselves) sounds very neat, if I understood correctly from your post people do this? Is it possible to have the extra woofers in stereo? That would be more than awesome! A definite upgrade later on, if possible..