question about HTPC as a HD-DVR - Overclock.net

seven9st surfer · 10-04-08

Ok, I'm new to the whole HTPC thing. I have a comp hooked up to my TV right now that's just old parts thrown together. I just moved into a new town, and the only cable provider is Mediacom. I subscribed to the regular HD programming and got a HD-DVR from them. Only thing is, the box is pure and utter crap, and basically doesn't work. I can watch TV, but as soon as I try to record or pause TV, the whole thing locks up. Oh, and if something actually does record, if the power goes out, all the recordings are gone. It's like it records to RAM or something. I told them this, and apparently the entire company is out of HD boxes, so they cant give me a replacement. Soooo... I want to upgrade my old PC into a decent HD HTPC.

Question is, how would I physically hook up the connections? I'm looking at the Hauppauge 1800. Could I just run the coax cable from the wall to the card? Would I have to go from the wall to the box, then from the box to the card? Would I get all the channels and be able to record fine? Does Vista or XP MCE support recording HD, or would I have to use a third-party app?

Thanks for any help, because if I'm gonna do this, I want to do it right.

seven9st surfer · 10-05-08

After doing a lot more research, I read that if I go directly from the wall to the PC, I can still get all the local channels in HD, but not premium ones (because the cable box is needed to decode the signal). Can someone explain this a little better or give me a good link to somewhere that explains all this stuff? Does premium mean like HBO and Showtime, or anything but CBS, NBC, etc? Also, if I go from the wall to the cable box, then from the box to the PC, would the box decode those premium channels and send them to the PC? THanks for any info, as I'm kind of new to this whole HTPC thing, and I really don't want to spend a whole bunch of money if I'm not going to be able to get my HD channels anyways

APOLLOSTEES · 10-05-08

You would have to ask your cable provider for the specifics on many of your questions. Trust me don't just google your answers, the cable companies seem to do what ever they want from region to region.

Here is how my cable provider Comcast does it.

1. You can not decode any of there HD programming without there box. (Of course you can see free network broadcast in HD as these are sent through the air. However through coax, Comcast will not give these to you with out their HD tuner.)

2.Comcast considers everything premium (not just HBO, CINEMAX, etc.) that is included in there digital package, and in order to view there digital package you have to decode it with there digital box. For example I have the digital plus package. This gives me about 200 channels, none of which are HBO, CINEMAX etc. However my other TV that does not have the digital box can only receive 77 channels.

Honestly I have never used the tuner card you linked to specifically, but I did have the Haupage WIN TV PVR, and IMHO using your PC as a DVR is a far cry from a dedicated DVR. You may loose certain features offered by your cable company like on-demand programing.

Plus it's their's so you can drop it in water and they replace it for free. Plus you can upgrade it for free. I would wait until you can get a free one from the cable company.

seven9st surfer · 10-05-08

Thanks for the info. I ended up connecting the coax straight from the wall to my TV and did an auto-scan to pick up any channels. Turns out I get HD NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, and FOX without using the box. So I assume I could watch and record those channels using an HD tuner card.

As for waiting for the company to supply me with one, it's been over 2 months now, and they still have no idea with they will get any more in the warehouse, so I'm not going to hold my breath on that.

And I know I'll loose some features like on-demand, but honestly, I never really use it anyways. I used XP Media Center Edition hooked up to a dual tuner (SD only) in college, and loved it. All I really want to do is be able to watch, pause, rewind, and record TV, and from what I can tell, that's what this HTPC will be able to do. If I do want to watch, say, a show on TBS HD, then I'll have to use the box, and I won't be able to record that channel. But setting up this HTPC will give me more options that I have now, from what I can tell.

One last thought: in all my research, I've come across some comments about XP and Vista Media Center not being able to support QAM channels, even if a tuner can physically pick it up. I assume the HD channels I'm able to pick up without using the cable box are QAM. So, can anyone confirm or deny? I actually liked XP Media center, so I was hoping to use it on the new comp. Thanks for any info or comments

JeremyFr · 10-05-08

Why not just get an HD Tivo and get some cable cards from your cable co, that way you can record all the HD channels.

stumped · 10-05-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by APOLLOSTEES

Here is how my cable provider Comcast does it.

1. You can not decode any of there HD programming without there box. (Of course you can see free network broadcast in HD as these are sent through the air. However through coax, Comcast will not give these to you with out their HD tuner.)

2.Comcast considers everything premium (not just HBO, CINEMAX, etc.) that is included in there digital package, and in order to view there digital package you have to decode it with there digital box. For example I have the digital plus package. This gives me about 200 channels, none of which are HBO, CINEMAX etc. However my other TV that does not have the digital box can only receive 77 channels.

Honestly I have never used the tuner card you linked to specifically, but I did have the Haupage WIN TV PVR, and IMHO using your PC as a DVR is a far cry from a dedicated DVR. You may loose certain features offered by your cable company like on-demand programing.

actually, you're only partially right.

Cable uses and encryption called QAM. But there is usually a number next to the QAM that shows encryption level. There are TV tuners out there (many are in your HDTVs right now and also some as computer tuner cards) that decode basic QAM. Basic QAM channels are channels like CBS NBC ABC PBS CW FOX (but ony fox, not fox sports, movies, etc.) These are your local channels. The only cable company i've heard of that does not use QAM encryption on their cable is Roger's.

The thing about QAM though, is that MS's media center software does not support QAM tuning on HD tuner cards. So you have to find a program out there that does QAM (like BeyondTV) really, it's not worth it to use a PC and a cable HD-DVR because of all the limitations. It would best be suited for OTA HD channels as they are much higher quality and less compressed.

Now, if you would still like to go the HD-DVR route, Tivo has a new HD version out that does cable cards (and yes, by law, you are supposed to be able to have the option to use your own hardware when you subscribe to cable) because they support cable cards and allow you to record channels in their HD glory.

JeremyFr · 10-05-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumped

actually, you're only partially right.

Cable uses and encryption called QAM. But there is usually a number next to the QAM that shows encryption level. There are TV tuners out there (many are in your HDTVs right now and also some as computer tuner cards) that decode basic QAM. Basic QAM channels are channels like CBS NBC ABC PBS CW FOX (but ony fox, not fox sports, movies, etc.) These are your local channels. The only cable company i've heard of that does not use QAM encryption on their cable is Roger's.

The thing about QAM though, is that MS's media center software does not support QAM tuning on HD tuner cards. So you have to find a program out there that does QAM (like BeyondTV) really, it's not worth it to use a PC and a cable HD-DVR because of all the limitations. It would best be suited for OTA HD channels as they are much higher quality and less compressed.

Now, if you would still like to go the HD-DVR route, Tivo has a new HD version out that does cable cards (and yes, by law, you are supposed to be able to have the option to use your own hardware when you subscribe to cable) because they support cable cards and allow you to record channels in their HD glory.

Actually the OP was correct, Comcast in most markets has all HD content including HD Local's now fully encrypted meaning you have to have a Comcast box or Cable card to receive them, a QAM in the clear tuner will not be able to tune them in.

I've verified this in the Seattle market with my QAM in the clear tuner on my TV. Cable companies are only required by the FCC to have the local SD feed's in the clear, everything else they're fully within right to encrypt and Comcast has chosen to do so.

As for the "number" you're talking about QAM 64 and 256, this is not representive of the encryption but rather the multiplexing. QAM is a compression technique that allows them to fit several Digital channels on one analog channel worth of bandwidth. 64 was the original standard but was not very efficient thus 256 came out and allowed them to pack up to 40mbit's of Digital channels on one 6mhz wide analog chunk of spectrum.

I could get into more detail on QAM but I'll spare ya.

seven9st surfer · 10-05-08

Wow, lots of good info there. +rep for the help.

That's too bad about WMC. I still think I'm gonna go with the HTPC/HD-DVR route, though. The only limitations that I can see are 1: not getting non-local HD channels (I only get like 2 of these anyways, no big deal. and 2: no on-demand, but again, I never use it, so no loss there. I also want to look into ripping all my DVDs onto the hard drive, so I've got instant access, and can clear up all the DVD cases around the TV.

I really like BeyondTV, though, the more I read about it. I'm gonna dl the trial version to see if it works for me. Bonus points that it has support to access all of my movies that I plan on ripping. Sounds pretty all-in-one to me.

Again, thanks for the info, and if I'm missing anything, let me know

JeremyFr · 10-05-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by seven9st surfer

Wow, lots of good info there. +rep for the help.

That's too bad about WMC. I still think I'm gonna go with the HTPC/HD-DVR route, though. The only limitations that I can see are 1: not getting non-local HD channels (I only get like 2 of these anyways, no big deal. and 2: no on-demand, but again, I never use it, so no loss there. I also want to look into ripping all my DVDs onto the hard drive, so I've got instant access, and can clear up all the DVD cases around the TV.

I really like BeyondTV, though, the more I read about it. I'm gonna dl the trial version to see if it works for me. Bonus points that it has support to access all of my movies that I plan on ripping. Sounds pretty all-in-one to me.

Again, thanks for the info, and if I'm missing anything, let me know

WMC at least in Vista will be supporting QAM tuning very soon. You can actually use QAM with certain cards in WMC specifically Avermedia cards, but I'm not to sure how that works

stumped · 10-06-08

the get QAM support in VMC, you need the OEM specific VMC update pack (which can be found by means frowned upon on this forum) As for the cableCARD tuning features added, the cableCARD tuners can't be bought outside of a new computer through an OEM (but maybe on ebay?) But then stil it's not worth the money.

You'll be happy with BeyondTV and you're setup. I've used BeyondTV for a while and liked it. But then i got VMC compatible components and like the "free"ness of it.

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question about HTPC as a HD-DVR

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