Intel Overclocking Redefined: Guide to Successful Overclocking with NB Straps in Mind - Page 5 - Overclock.net

Syrillian · 01-30-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldovi

I am hoping this gets stickied.

2nd that motion. Do we have a 3rd?

Avacado · 01-31-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldovi

Just like your CPU, the Northbridge on your motherboard (i865 and newer) has its own internal frequency and latencies which affect overall system stability. This is referred to as the NBCC (North Bridge Core Clock). The NBCC directly affects the performance and stability of your memory and CPU because Intel system used a NB based memory controller.
It has been recently discovered that the NBCC varies with your systems FSB and multiplier settings. The NBCC can be calculated by dividing your CPU current multiplier by its default multiplier and then multiplier the sum by your FSB.

Wonderful guide BTW.... I am a fairly new Overclocker.... I had medeled in it sparingly without any guides a few years back, and am trying to re-join the scene. This particular part sparked my interest. does this mean that Northbridges lower then (i865) do not have their own internal frequency and latencies? and if so, how does the lack of that affect the overclocking of a system.

1 last thing, I was checking around on the Gigabyte website looking at the specs of my Northbridge to determine wether or not mine was (i865) or greater, and I was unable to determine if it was.... maybe you could hlep and let me know if it is and I need to factor in theese settings when over clocking.

Now Bear with me, i'm at work and I have to get this in writing.... or i will forget my train of thought... I will post screenies of what i am talking about later when i get home.

Now. In bios when i set the FSB to 214, that is the highest i can go which boosts my RAM to 428. If i change the FSB to 215 it drops my RAM some where around the low 300's, now from what i gather in your guide, that lowers the ram from a 1:1 PC3200 DDR to a different ratio at something less then PC3200. Basicly what i am trying to gather is due to the fact that my motherboard only supports a maximum FSB of 800, does that mean i will have to buy a new MB to increase the FSB in order to achieve 1:1 ratio's with my ram??? I am aware that only testing will confirm if a higher FSB and looser RAM ratio like 4:5 are better then a 1:1 ratio with lower FSB ratings.

In my BIOS right now, i have it set to 214 which leaves my ram at a 1:1 ratio boosting my stock 2.8 GHZ to a 3.01 GHZ system and RAM from 400 to 428. In bios the ratio I can set the FSB too ranges from 100-350. If i go higher with my FSB but my ram drops to a looser rating of 4:5, and falls under 400 (EX:333), do you think that it will be worse for performance, and does the fact that my MB only supports a max of 800FSB limit me in overclocking?

If so, I can spend a few bucks to buy a board that will give me FSB ratings of 800 and 1066 respectively. I know this seems like a scatter brain question, but it's the best way i know how to get this off my chest at work. I will again compile screenies when i get home, but could use all the help i can get if anyone thinks they have an idea of what i'm trying to get at, and can give me a valid answer.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Tatalebuj · 02-09-07

Great guide, really helped me understand what was going on. I read this about a week ago and did not understand everything, but then I spent this week poking around many different guides and getting a better understanding of how to OC. When I reread this tonight......WOW, the light came on and I think I'm finally getting close to the point where I will feel comfortable in OCing my new rig.

Two things jumped out at me about your explaination that could use a little more information (or maybe someone can point me in the right direction to read up on it myself) - Voltage.

Quote:

The classical response to an instable overclock was:
1. Increase CPU voltage.
2. Increase Memory voltage.

How does that help? I've seen other posts mentioning it, but I just don't understand how the voltage "stabalizes" the CPU/Memory/NBCC. And isn't that dangerous to the life-span of the component?

And finally if you could perhaps summarize in your conclusion the basic effects for the two types of overclockers : Gamers/Benchmarkers. Does keeping memory tighter provide better gameplay? In your opening paragraph it seems that you are saying memory latencies mean less to applications than memory bandwidths. For a gamer that is important, but for someone going for benchmarks they may want the higher numbers. Of course, I'm a new to all of this so I could be just completely wrong.

Final item : The second attachment did not show up, link is dead.

This guide is fantastic and extremely helpful to those of us new to OCing. Thanks!

pauldovi · 02-09-07

I just completely a rather lengthy response to the above questions. I accidentally lost it by clicking on a link.... Very sad right now....

Alberto · 03-02-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldovi

I just completely a rather lengthy response to the above questions. I accidentally lost it by clicking on a link.... Very sad right now....

Ummm.... it's been 2 weeks now... I'm sure you already forgot about that poblem... how about writing the lengthly answers again

And by the way... great guide... I'm just waiting the break-in period for my thermal paste... then I'll start overclocking... one don't just buy a Tuniq Tower for nothing, right?

psun786 · 03-03-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldovi

[b](Version .90)
Moving along, the NBCC has a series of latencies at which it operates. These latencies have considerable effect on overall system performance. The latencies within the NB increase when your NBCC hits specific values, thus increasing stability, but decreasing performance. A range of latencies that operate in specific NBCC values are referred to as straps. There is a 1066Mhz strap, 1333Mhz strap, and so on. However, the name is misleading, because motherboard engineers change the frequency at which specific straps set in. The trigger NBCC's for each range of latencies is different for all motherboards. However, you can manually test many different NBCC values by using Super Pi or a memory bandwidth test to find where the latencies within your system change.

I just downloaded the PI program.. can anyone explain to me how to use this program to find the NB chip straps?

MADMAX22 · 03-03-07

its pretty easy jsut do some runs of super pi at like 380 fsb 390 fsb 395,400,405 410 so on and so forth with the same mulit and ram divider, at some point youll get a increase of 5 fsb but your super pi time will be either slower the same or barely above your last pi run which indicates that you have changed straps

pauldovi · 03-06-07

I have been real busy with school and flying. I am going to do some update work to the guide and try to answer some questions tomorrow (maybe)! I am still hoping for this to be stickied!

jahanzeb · 04-23-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldovi

I would really appreciate input on how to make this guide better in terms of formatting, explanations, and anything I didn't cover.

Great, great, great, great guide!

A couple of requests for you to address if possible:

1) The third guide on your sig (Intel Secrets...) suggests using ClockGen to get the best of both worlds, whereas you suggest it's not a good idea. Which is correct?

Quote:

Look around for other people with the same or similar systems. Get an idea of what they have accomplished. Then create a goal.

2) Are there sites where one can search for certain aspects of people's systems, to figure out what would be a good goal to go for? If so, can you put up a link on such a site/search engine? I know that on this site there are members' sigs as well as systems listed, but it's not easy to get an idea of what the 'norm' is for a specific mobo/processor.

As someone who's about to spend a lot of money on a new system, and who's interested in learning about overclocking and applying it, I'd like to know which C2D to go for, which motherboard, etc. -- added to this is the constraint that not everyone can access all the parts out there (for instance, there's a really good Asus dealer in my city, and you can get certain types of high end Corsair/Kingston RAM -- but if you're interested in A-Open or Gigabyte, forget about it). I tried looking up the CPU-Z database, but it's hard to figure out whether these are results from hard-core, putting-ice-to-the-CPU-to-cool-it extreme OCers, or people who want reasonable bang-for-the-buck.

In my case, what I'm wondering is -- if I get an Asus P5B, what C2D should I get? If I get an E6600 and DDR2-800 memory, what's a 'reasonable' goal, and what will I need to do to achieve it?

In the 'Intel Secrets' thread, you wrote:

Quote:

What seems to be the best at the moment is stock multiplier and a 400Mhz FSB or greater than 460Mhz FSB (at stock multi).

It would be great if a reader could figure out how difficult it is to get 460 vs 400 -- do I need a better-than-stock CPU cooler? And/or a casing with intake and air output? Since this directly impacts the choice of RAM to purchase (at least I think it does) -- it's important to know this before making the purchase.

As you can tell, I'm super new to this, but am learning the basic theory thanks to extremely useful and well written guides like the one you've written here. Thanks!

pauldovi · 04-23-07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jahanzeb

Great, great, great, great guide!

A couple of requests for you to address if possible:

1) The third guide on your sig (Intel Secrets...) suggests using ClockGen to get the best of both worlds, whereas you suggest it's not a good idea. Which is correct?

ClockGen can be used to get a small increase in performance. I do not recommend that it be used for normal 24/7 operation, but rather for short duration benchmarking purposes. Stability of system components are a concern when using ClockGen to push the FSB. Although there is no real risk to system components, there is a real risk of system crash (losing data). That is why I suggest it not be used for 24/7 operation.

2) Are there sites where one can search for certain aspects of people's systems, to figure out what would be a good goal to go for? If so, can you put up a link on such a site/search engine? I know that on this site there are members' sigs as well as systems listed, but it's not easy to get an idea of what the 'norm' is for a specific mobo/processor.

The best thing to do is create and thread, specify your application (I.E. Gaming / Business) and budget (I.E. $2000). You will be flooded with support on this forum. Other ways to gain information is to look at sigs and see what seems to be most popular. Then ask! The third method would be through review sites such as Tom's Hardware and Anandtech.

As someone who's about to spend a lot of money on a new system, and who's interested in learning about overclocking and applying it, I'd like to know which C2D to go for, which motherboard, etc. -- added to this is the constraint that not everyone can access all the parts out there (for instance, there's a really good Asus dealer in my city, and you can get certain types of high end Corsair/Kingston RAM -- but if you're interested in A-Open or Gigabyte, forget about it). I tried looking up the CPU-Z database, but it's hard to figure out whether these are results from hard-core, putting-ice-to-the-CPU-to-cool-it extreme OCers, or people who want reasonable bang-for-the-buck.

People on this forum (and all forums) will always be willing to put in their 2 cents. However, remember, it is your money your spending and not there. So if someone seems careless in their suggestions, I would steer clear of them. Great places to search for and buy computer parts include: www.Newegg.com, www.Zipzoomfly.com, www.TankGuys.com, www.Performance-Pcs.com, www.Ewiz.com. All of those sites offer good service and are reliable. You will almost always pay a premium when buying parts locally, unless as you said you have a connection.

In my case, what I'm wondering is -- if I get an Asus P5B, what C2D should I get? If I get an E6600 and DDR2-800 memory, what's a 'reasonable' goal, and what will I need to do to achieve it?

Almost all Core 2 Duo (I have yet to see one incapable of doing so) are more than capable of achieving their stock multiplier with 400Mhz FSB. That would be 2.80Ghz on an E6300, 3.20Ghz on an E6400, 3.60Ghz on an E6600, and 3.60Ghz on an E4300. The E6700 and X6700's performance will widely depend on your cooling system, overclocking skills, and motherboard.

There are plenty of motherboards which are more than capable of achieving 400FSB. Some of the most popular ones include the Gigabyte GA-965-DS3, GA-965-DQ6, ASUS P5B Deluxe, Commando, P5N32-E SLI, Striker Extreme, Intel D975XBX2, EVGA 680i, and many more. Your motherboard selection should primarly be based on your chipset (northbridge) need as well as your price-range. If you want SLI, you will need a motherboard with a Nvidia 650i or 680i chipset. The most popular chipset is the Intel P965, although the 975X is just as good. Read up on the differences between the chipsets and consider your price range when deciding on a motherboard. I highly suggest either the ASUS P5N32-E SLI, ASUS P5B Dlx, Intel 975XBX2, Abit AB9 Quad GT, or the Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3.

In the 'Intel Secrets' thread, you wrote:

It would be great if a reader could figure out how difficult it is to get 460 vs 400 -- do I need a better-than-stock CPU cooler? And/or a casing with intake and air output? Since this directly impacts the choice of RAM to purchase (at least I think it does) -- it's important to know this before making the purchase.

As you can tell, I'm super new to this, but am learning the basic theory thanks to extremely useful and well written guides like the one you've written here. Thanks!

In order to achieve increased FSB safely and successfully, you are going to need aftermarket cooling. Cooling costs can range from $50 to $20,000 (really!), which the performance increase diminishing even as your increase the money. The most common methods of cooling include simple air cooling. Some users (such as myself) use watercooling systems. These are no where near as efficient (money-wise) or practical as high-end aircooling, but they serve as an excellent hobby. For aircooling some of the best performers seem to be the Big Typoon or the Tuniq Tower. Watercooling is another story entirely.

Not only can you cool the processor, but also your northbridge, videocard, and memory can benifit from additional cooling. Typically, a 80mm or 120mm fan hung above your memory area (use your imagination to get it there) is quite effective. If you have excellent air flow in your system this is not necessary.

The northbridge on a high end (overclocked) Core 2 Duo system is quite strained and is typically the source of system failures. I highly suggest aftermarket cooling for this (or at least a fan providing direct airflow).

So in short, getting to 400Mhz FSB is quite easy. Going beyond that can be fun to do, but often serves little practical purpose. Your operating costs (I.E. electric bill and cost of cooling components) will increase drastically after this.

Your memory choice should be one of the bottom decisions. You can spend quite a bit of money of very high performance memory (I do), however the performance increase will be minimal (at best). DRR2-800 is considerably cheaper than DDR2-1000 or DDR2-1200, and performs quite well considering the premium you will pay for the better memory. You can often invest the money into a faster processor, hard drives, or videocard which will yield considerable performance increase when compared to the memory. DDR2-800 or DDR2-1000 memory will be quite sufficient (get 2GB!)

I hope I covered everything, and it I didn't just ask.

Edit* I just noticed you live in Pakistan. That could make most of the online dealers harder to purchase from. I know that www.performance-pcs.com and www.tankguys.com will ship internationally.

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/146820-intel-overclocking-redefined-guide-successful-overclocking.html
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Intel Overclocking Redefined: Guide to Successful Overclocking with NB Straps in Mind