thenailedone

I lol'ed... sigged

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voice

"Documentation for beginners is non-existent."

No it isn't. The Ubuntu forums even have a section for absolute beginners. Look: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=73


"For some bizarre reason, everyone in the UNIX community can't come up with a decent name for anything. From the deployment packages, the software revisions, to the applications and utilities themselves."

You're moaning about using UNIX because of the names given to distros, programs etc.? Seriously is that all you can find, and note that i use this term very lightly, "wrong" with using linux/any unix operating system?

Maybe it's time you grew up.

On a different note, I like this thread and I like the OP. I'm actually downloading Ubuntu right now to try it out. My brother uses Kubutu but I've never used it or linux before and I honestly believe that if it wasn't for games I wouldn't even be using Windows. Still, I'll try to take you up on that challenge, lattyware, and try Linux for myself.

Voice.

thenailedone

Cool voice...

But it is lattyware's challenge... all I can say is if you really want to give it a good go you will be pleasantly surprised...

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voice

Oops! Hehe, just changed it now. I thought it was you because your avatars are similar. *Slaps forehead*

It seems pretty good so far, although I'm only running it through CD. Some things are definitely different, but not in a bad way.

I will keep using it and see how it goes.

Sir Humpsalot

Of course windows will be started up more. You need to do that to a Windows machine at least once every couple of days with multiple users or else things get really sluggish and troublesome. My linux machine hasn't been restarted in over a month. I keep installing and deinstalling software packages and the thing NEVER yet has asked me for a restart. It just keeps chugging along as fast as it was when I started.

And really, do YOU want to explain to my mother how to defrag a computer and when to do it?

And, if I really want them to never use windows, all I have to do is stop answering my phone. A week of the scary anti-virus messages about possible intrusions and trojans and worms (all things they barely understand) will get them switched to Linux immediately if I'm not available to explain to them what those things mean...

But anyway, when you're done explaining what all the weird AV messages mean, you can explain to them why the procedure to install programs and the procedure to deinstall them are totally different on Windows (with Linux, you just uncheck the same box you originally checked to install it).

And sure the new computer is faster. It blows the doors off the old one. It even blows the door off a one year old Windows computer with nearly identical specs. Now, you might say that's because the windows computer needs to be tweaked. Go ahead and explain to my mother how to "tweak" a computer...

The more I get into modern-GUI Linux, the more I feel like Windows is the OS for people who don't have a life and love rooting through the system "fixing things". Since I got it up and running, I haven't accessed the Linux version of the "control panel" in over 2 months. How many of you Windows users can say that?

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Put this in your sig if you are afraid I will kick your butt if you don't.

The Hundred Gunner

Oh, boy. This is going to be fun. Here we go:

I'll agree there. There are so many possibilities in setups and distros and software and hardware that it's hard to find your exact case somewhere online and get whatever it is you need working.

I've had no success in getting Compiz working in Suse yet, and I've visited a good number of sites.

However, for me anyway, there's more to Linux than the special effects. The special effects are NICE, though.

Don't make broad sweeping statements like that. There is a VERY good chance that it's not true, which that particular statement isn't.

For wireless, I find it extremely difficult to get working in Linux. Wired usually works out of the box, though. For other regular stuff, there are usually built-in drivers, like sound, mice, etc.

I agree. Stupid things like that need to be changed if Linux is to take a bigger market share. I find it absurd that the supposed "easy" distro, Ubuntu (and its variants), doesn't support 1280x1024 (or any "odd/WS" res for that matter) out of the box. And it seems like such an easy thing they could change before putting the ISOs out for download...

Unfortunately, Linux/Unix was designed for power, NOT for ease of use. That's one big thing that pushes users away. Just look at the file system. It's not set up all nicely like it is in windows. It's designed for power (which I believe should draw us here on OCN in, since we bash the OS that makes everything so easy to use and its hardware that can't be OCed.)

There is a reason for the capitalization and brevity of program names, such as cp and mv. First, they're lowercase for the reason that if you had to type a bunch of commands (since Unix is primarily CLI), would you want to hit "shift" all the time? And wouldn't you rather type "cp" instead of "Copy?"

How annoying would that be? "Copy /Home/User/Desktop/File.ext /Usr/Local/File.ext" That would suck!

You can change: The resolution, the speed/sens, the acceleration and all that in the control panel


So the hell what? If I there is the possibility that I can help, I'll do it. What difference should it make whether or not there's a high probability of there being a port?

Yeah, I realize that. This is the reason I specifically laid out that we here on OCN should be able to learn Linux. I stated that I do not expect the average joe to do so.

I take it you haven't heard about windows stealth-updating users' systems, then, whether or not you have windows updates turned off.

If the motherboard fails, then you are allowed your key to work on that new motherboard. But you cannot get a new motherboard (an upgrade or anything) and tell them "my crap broke, new key plz?" That's against the m$ EULA.

If it's retail, you buy that one key and you can install it on any computers and activate it, as long as it's only activated on ONE computer at a time.

If you have an OEM key, your key is married to your motherboard. It cannot divorce it and remarry.

I agree with that. Linux is making its way toward being more user-friendly. But at this point in time, it isn't ready for the average joe. I do believe, however, that it has gotten to the point where it could be a suitable OS for leet people like us on OCN. At least you get to say you've tried it.

Oh, and on a side note (talking to everyone in general, no one specific): don't bash on other OSs for being user-friendly and not customizable and then say that you like windows because it's easy to use

You probably can get away with it. But that doesn't stop it from being illegal. Just like the people saying that using OSX on a PC isn't illegal: yeah, you might not get caught, but that doesn't stop it from being wrong. Apple and microsoft have the right to choose how they want their products sold, and if you break those terms, then you're stealing.

Then you're just tricking yourself and trying to justify your purchase.

Ou purposefully put out a skewed test. If you can't see from the beginning that his test favored one OS over the other, then you're taking the blue pill.

http://www.overclock.net/software-ne...-security.html

Let me ask, then: where do you find all your "documentation" for windows? As a beginner, where would one find documentation for installing something in windows? For defragging? Tweaking the registry? Learning about msconfig? Overclocking (GPUs)? Does windows have that all figured out for you already?

You could have at least provided an example. I really don't know to what exactly you are referring. If you mean like X and KDE and GNOME and stuff: did you really expect them to be named "DOS" and "explorer?" And the Panel to be called the "start menu?" No, it's different. Just because they're not what you're used to doesn't mean that they're absurd.

For noobs wanting to learn, there are books and many ways to learn. I've gotten books and stuff myself, and I'm on my journey to learning. For leet people like us on OCN, there are always ways of finding out how to do things; that's what we DO. Maybe I'm on the wrong forum site if everyone around me is complaining that things aren't easy enough... lol

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"But you would be amazed by how many people think that the only reason to have a computer is to play games, and that playing games is all that anyone with a computer does." - dangerousHobo

"Linux is everywhere, it is all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. " - mbp

"I have used a mac before. And they still don't have right click I mean come on." - aakar

Blah, blah, can't hear you

Sistum Id

Uhh The Hundred Gunner...your quotes are a little off...I know half the stuff that you have quoted for me wasn't said by me... Just heads up.

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Sweet song title.

Discombobulated corps termination urbanization governmentalibation explosive montezuma's blasting powering event!!!!! Come on, say it with me!!!

Q6600 G0 400*9 3.6 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=351003

The Hundred Gunner

Thanks. Fixed, I think.

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"But you would be amazed by how many people think that the only reason to have a computer is to play games, and that playing games is all that anyone with a computer does." - dangerousHobo

"Linux is everywhere, it is all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. " - mbp

"I have used a mac before. And they still don't have right click I mean come on." - aakar

Blah, blah, can't hear you

Brian_GP1200R

Everyone keeps mentioning defrag... Vista does it automatically now, XP hardly ever needed if for average use either... lord knows I probably only ran it twice during the 4-5 years that my copy of XP was up, and my XP box wasn't a dog.

If you stopped answering your phone, your parents would simply ask someone else who isn't trying to push their own agenda about operating systems and they would be perfectly happy running Windows. I'm not saying DON'T run Linux... just saying for the vast majority of people it's a wasted effort, you really aren't gaining much if anything.

I'd love to see actual start up times compared between Linux and Vista as well as performance testing of software that's been ported to both. In my experience Vista "seemed" faster.

Also if you don't want the stupid AV messages, don't install crap AV software (Norton is about the worest ever), and don't download garbage with viruses. You CAN get a virus and malware on Linux too... don't forget that.

Either way, you guys have convinced me to take the challenge (again) since I haven't really played with a Linux desktop in years. (I do run it command line though) I've ordered a brand new 300gig drive to slap in my old Athlon XP 2100+ system with 1 gig of ram. So... give me the "best" distro to play with... thus far it's sounding like Ubuntu is probably up there. In the past I've always gone Red Hat or Fedora and feel 100% comfortable working with Solaris or Fedora with only the command line.

Here is what I want:

1) Good performance on Athlon XP 2100+ with 1 gig of memory

2) Must be "pretty"

3) Must be easy and make sense, I can deal with hard, but I don't want to.

4) Must out of the box support my hardware. I DO NOT want to compile drivers. When I mean support, I want to plug in my USB Canon printer and it start working. I do have a 22 inch wide screen monitor, I saw someone mention that some distros don't deal with that well natively.

5) Must have a good package manager, I don't want to deal with depenencies. I want updates automatic and non-intrusive.


So, what distro gets me closest to the above? I'll d/l and install it once my new HD gets in and let you guys know what I think. Obviously I can't do perf testing between Vista and this new linux box as they will be on different hardware.

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Desktop: E6600 @ 2700, P5B-Deluxe Wifi, 4gb ram, ATI x1950PRO 512mb, 2 x 250gig RAID 0, 1 x 250 gig non RAID, Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit

File Server / Utility: Athlon XP 2100+ 1 gig ram, TI4600, ubuntu

Web Server: OLD Sun Ultra 10, 333mhz Sparc, 256mb ram, Solaris 9

Firewall: OLD Compaq P3 450mhz, 192mb ram, Linux command line only

Quasimojo