Thread Tagging FAQ: What you need to know and why you need to know it

[Hueristic]

Originally Posted by GH0

So basically:


This is what not to do.

Attachment 111002

Why would that matter, the thread would be deleted as soon as a mod gets the call.

Why Can't I tag something in the Off Topic section?

[GH0]

It matters, because that was not what the tagging system was created for.

[Hueristic]

Originally Posted by GH0

It matters, because that was not what the tagging system was created for.

I would think a spam thread (which gets deleted as soon as a mod gets the notice) would not matter what tags it had. But I don't see how spam and do not bump would be inappropriate.

Sometimes you have to go by the intent of the law and not the verbage. There are no absolutes in any human language.

[BFRD]

The Spam, and Do Not Reply tags matter because only the thread gets deleted. This causes extra work to go back and delete the tags. Rules are easier to follow if they are black and white. If we begin to allow our rules to be interpreted by the members we will always have problems and arguments. To combat problems with interpretation we have tried our best to make our rules clear. Technically speaking "Spam" is an accurate tag, since it plainly identifies what is in the thread. However, making a spam thread easier to find and search by doesn't do us any favors. So we made a specific example so there would be no confusion. "Do not reply" violates our tagging policies because it doesn't represent content, it is sending a message. While I agree spam threads don't stay live long, the principle still exists. We want to build up the tagging system to promote our overclocking/computer content. This is also the reason we have disabled tags in off topic, as they inherently detract from our base content.

[Hueristic]

Thanks for clarifying that BFRD. Could you tell me why tags are not deleted auto when a thread is? That seems to defeat the purpose of the tag system and will cause more work for the mods?

[BFRD]

Originally Posted by Hueristic

Thanks for clarifying that BFRD. Could you tell me why tags are not deleted auto when a thread is? That seems to defeat the purpose of the tag system and will cause more work for the mods?

It certainly defeats the purpose for spam-like threads, but not for anything else. For example let's say that a member made a post that incited a flame war (ati/nvidia etc). That thread might well be tagged with one of those names (ati, nvidia etc.). If deleting the thread deleted the tag, then some of our most populous tags would also be removed (from all threads). When a tag is created on a thread a couple of things happen in the background. First the tag is added to our master tag list if it doesn't already exist and given a tagid. Then that tagid is attached to a record containing the tagid, userid (of who added), threadid and date it this was done. So when someone adds a tag of "ati" they aren't creating the tag as that was done a very long time ago; they are simply adding that existing tagid to the new thread.

So, that is why deleting a thread cannot delete the tag itself. Also keep in mind that threads never get deleted only hidden. Even spam threads are still there in the system. Nobody (including myself) can perform a hard delete on a thread.

[Hueristic]

Originally Posted by BFRD

It certainly defeats the purpose for spam-like threads, but not for anything else. For example let's say that a member made a post that incited a flame war (ati/nvidia etc). That thread might well be tagged with one of those names (ati, nvidia etc.). If deleting the thread deleted the tag, then some of our most populous tags would also be removed (from all threads). When a tag is created on a thread a couple of things happen in the background. First the tag is added to our master tag list if it doesn't already exist and given a tagid. Then that tagid is attached to a record containing the tagid, userid (of who added), threadid and date it this was done. So when someone adds a tag of "ati" they aren't creating the tag as that was done a very long time ago; they are simply adding that existing tagid to the new thread.

So, that is why deleting a thread cannot delete the tag itself. Also keep in mind that threads never get deleted only hidden. Even spam threads are still there in the system. Nobody (including myself) can perform a hard delete on a thread.

IC, I was not aware that deleting a tag that is identical to another tag deletes all the references along with it. That sounds like it should be addressed. Then shouldn't the TagId get deleted with the thread? and if the tag is a new one it gets deleted? Seems like a simple check loop?

Interesting I did not know you were unable to do a hard delete. Another question. If you cannot do a hard delete will a search engine still be able to pick up deleted data?

[BFRD]

Originally Posted by Hueristic

IC, I was not aware that deleting a tag that is identical to another tag deletes all the references along with it. That sounds like it should be addressed. Then shouldn't the TagId get deleted with the thread? and if the tag is a new one it gets deleted? Seems like a simple check loop?

Tagging is based on the principle that all we have only one tag of "ati", that is what links the threads together. So deleting a tag removes all instances, and unlinking a tag just removes the connection. If a tag is simply misplaced, then unlinking is the right way to go, but for some deleting is the better option. The moderation of tags is much more complex than thread moderation because the implications are much greater (deleteing vs unlinking). Which brings us back around to why our rules are strict. We are trying to make it easier to spot those tags that are just always going to be wrong. Spam can be deleted on sight because it is never valid. If we said that tags (like "spam") were sometimes valid then we have to look up the thread and go through the content and decide how to proceed. If we can get our members to understand tagging and its purpose we can virtually eliminate needing to remove tags and hand out infractions. There had been virtually no constraints when the system was new so we are now in a transition phase. We fully expect our tagging system to be used in a much more proper manner moving forward, although less frequently. For example last nights report of tag activity had about 80% proper. The volume was much less but there were much fewer garbage tags to remove. This tells me that those members who were posting tags to be funny have stopped.

Originally Posted by Hueristic

Interesting I did not know you were unable to do a hard delete. Another question. If you cannot do a hard delete will a search engine still be able to pick up deleted data?

Depending on when search engines run across our site it is certainly possible to pick up threads that have been since deleted. The links are no longer going to work, but google, for example, caches a copy of the search. That cached copy will still remain available, we don't have any control over that. However, this is off topic for this thread. If you have further questions about that shoot me a pm.

[Hueristic]

THX for the time spent to explain this BFRD. Sounds like the tagging system is pretty complex.

I don't know if this is off topic or not but would it be a decent Idea to only allow members to tag when a specific criteria is met? thereby eliminating tagging by new users that have not even got to the TOS let alone a thread like this? Also maybe loseing tagging rights if your infraction count is too high? I don't know I am just thinking that the Mods are going to be swamped with manually controlling this?

[Chipp]

Originally Posted by Hueristic

THX for the time spent to explain this BFRD. Sounds like the tagging system is pretty complex.

I don't know if this is off topic or not but would it be a decent Idea to only allow members to tag when a specific criteria is met? thereby eliminating tagging by new users that have not even got to the TOS let alone a thread like this? Also maybe loseing tagging rights if your infraction count is too high? I don't know I am just thinking that the Mods are going to be swamped with manually controlling this?

As of current, adding new tags is limited to PM-enabled users. It is possible to restrict that further, however, we would like to leave the option to add tags as open as possible because it is only a small minority who cannot use the system correctly. They can be dealt with individually rather than restricting potential "good" users.