437 W TEC Waterblock OTHER than V8p or Arctic Web?? - Overclock.net

FallingUp · 05-06-08

Hey everyone,

So I'm still planning out my WC setup including a 437 W TEC on my Q6600, but I ran into a little problem. I contacted fstfrddy and he doesn't make the Stinger V8p block anymore (too costly to produce I think) and the Arctic Web seems to be completely sold out everywhere... so, does anyone know of another waterblock that can hold a 62mm TEC?

If there simply isn't a block that can hold one, and I can't find the V8p or AW used, could someone point me towards some instructions / literature for modifying a good (and sufficiently large) waterblock to add a clamped on cold plate, or whatever I need to do? Thanks a lot guys!

Oh P.S., not that I'm thinking of doing it, but I'm curious, has anyone ever tried adding a TEC to cool a GPU? Is it just not worth it and draws a lot of electricity? I'm guessing if you want sub-ambient temps on more than the CPU, making a slush box would be easier? Just curious.

Ultrasonic2 (muffy) · 05-07-08

the Arctic Web block seems to come into stock the go out every now and again.

i think you have a few options

1 pay your local engineering company to make you a block which, will be the most expensive.

2 get a machine shop to machine you up a nice flat block then mount TWO 226- 320 TEC's to it and cool the hot side with TWO apogee GT's

This should work quite well but cooling a 6600 at 4g to ambient will be a tough job. You'll have to have a serious cooling system to cool your TEC's. Don't bother with anything less than TWO 120.3 radiators.

you can checkout my website for more info on TEC cooling www.watercooling.co.nz

I've got my old Quad TEC cooled by two water blocks on there, which may be of some interest.. Theirs plenty of things i'd do differently if i were to do it again but it's interesting.
http://watercooling.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8

FallingUp · 05-09-08

Thanks for the help. I'm checking into finding an arctic web somewhere, but who knows when they'll be in stock.

I like the idea of using two smaller TECs in parallel, especially if I got two 340Ws and significantly undervolted them for better efficiency... I have access to mills at my college, and I'm sure I could find someone who knows how to use them, heh. Anyways... I've got a 680i board, and it seems to be a bit of a challenge to fit a large copper block on the CPU. There are R50 blocks and MOSFET coolers to the top and left and RAM to the right. So, do you think it would realistic to make a long cold plate that covered both the CPU and the north bridge, and then put 2-3 TECs side by side on that? Obviously it'd need a custom mounting solution and lots of insulation, but I can take care of that. I wouldn't think the NB would be putting off enough heat to draw a lot of cooling from the CPU... but I don't know these things too well, haha.

On a separate note, good point about the radiator. I was planning on buying a 480GTX. I read this where ira-k contacted the company and they said it could handle 2200 watts in "stealth mode" (low CFM fans). If that number is accurate at all, wouldn't one 480GTX be able to handle my CPU, maybe NB, several TECs, and even two GPUs?

Also, great info on your website, and that TEC calc rocks.

Ultrasonic2 (muffy) · 05-09-08

yeah the 480 GTX will be fine .. is pretty much 2 480 gts's stuck together it should do the job fine. Do use a shroud though as that makes a big difference .

if your custom making your waterblock then anything is possible.
You should consider going down the water chillier rout if you've got the hardware to make blocks. Chillers solve a whole number of issues with directly mounted tecs

FallingUp · 05-10-08

Thanks and +rep for the info so far.

Sorry I keep coming up with more questions... this whole TEC thing is pretty complicated, heh.

So right now I'm looking at getting two copper plates, putting 2 or more TECs in parallel between those, and putting two waterblocks on top of that... basically like the example from your website you gave me. I'm looking at several setups using differing numbers / wattage TECs to figure out what would work best. I'm mainly constrained by the physical room on the motherboard and power from the Meanwell.

So when running TECs in parallel, do you have to consider how many amps each is drawing? For example, does the TEC have to run at Imax, or does that not really matter? Because in my theoretical setups, I can have each TEC running at somewhere around 60-70% of Umax, the entire setup not drawing more than 600W (the max of the Meanwell) BUT each TEC is only getting a fraction of the total amperage from the PSU. For example, I could technically fit 6 172W TECs, 2 437W TECs, etc, and work out each situation with proper voltages / wattages, but each TEC would be getting significantly less than it's Imax. There doesn't seem to be a ton of literature on the net about TECs in parallel so I'm having trouble understanding the power needs of it all.

Also, I've been using your TEC calc to run some numbers... could you possibly estimate a good C/W for me to use? The setup would be: 3/8 inch thick copper block (probably 2in x 5in or so) >> TECs >> another identical copper block >> two waterblocks. Obviously the two copper blocks would be bolted together with necessary force to get the most out of the TECs. I've seen .15 used in several examples, but I've also seen waterblocks that get down to .08 or so with good flow rates. As there's such a big difference in those, it really changes the numbers. My ambients are about 24 C in case that matters.

As for the water chiller route... I DO have access to a mill, but I don't really have to knowledge to use it. Like, I could ask a professor "hey, can you cut this block this size, and drill these holes" but not like "hey, let me do this really complicated water block". I don't know that much about chillers so I dunno... I'll definitely look into it.

I really appreciate the help, and hopefully I can start working on the project soon!

AKAeric · 05-10-08

Are you looking for a block and a PSU? I have an arctic web and psu that I bought off Pook I think, haven't used it since. All brand new. Only interested in getting rid of it all though.

Ultrasonic2 (muffy) · 05-10-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingUp

Thanks and +rep for the info so far.

Sorry I keep coming up with more questions... this whole TEC thing is pretty complicated, heh.

So right now I'm looking at getting two copper plates, putting 2 or more TECs in parallel between those, and putting two waterblocks on top of that... basically like the example from your website you gave me. I'm looking at several setups using differing numbers / wattage TECs to figure out what would work best. I'm mainly constrained by the physical room on the motherboard and power from the Meanwell.

The above design does have some issues that can be improved ..
1 the screws that hold the top and bottom plate together obviously conduct heat making it less efficient. resolution is to drill the holes out larger on the top plate so the screws dont tuch the sides then up plastic washes under the head to insulate it from the heat.

2 since there is two waterblocks on top, the top plate is way to thick.

3 having a top plate significantly reduces performance. because the copper top plate does insulate it some what and there's an extra layer of thermal past. resolution is to not have a top plate and have one water block per TEC. obviously this wont for if your TEC's are to big .

Nother post coming

Ultrasonic2 (muffy) · 05-10-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingUp

So when running TECs in parallel, do you have to consider how many amps each is drawing? For example, does the TEC have to run at Imax, or does that not really matter? Because in my theoretical setups, I can have each TEC running at somewhere around 60-70% of Umax, the entire setup not drawing more than 600W (the max of the Meanwell) BUT each TEC is only getting a fraction of the total amperage from the PSU. For example, I could technically fit 6 172W TECs, 2 437W TECs, etc, and work out each situation with proper voltages / wattages, but each TEC would be getting significantly less than it's Imax. There doesn't seem to be a ton of literature on the net about TECs in parallel so I'm having trouble understanding the power needs of it all.

id like to clarify what i mean by "parallel" .. the TEc's ate physically in parallel ie next to each other. that doesn't mean they have to be wired in parallel they can still be wired in series. in not sure if this is relevant but i thought i should put it in.

You should always try to run your TEC well below Umax and Imax. if you decrease one the other will also decrease. you need to run it low to gain electrical efficiency.

So to answer your question In a way Imax doesn't matter if your controlling the voltage going to it.

The whole point of using heaps of TEC's or having one super powerful one is so you can run them at a fraction of Imax / Umax. the lower these are the more heat can be transferred per watt of electricity used. Electricity used is a double edged sword not only do you have to pay for it but you have to then turn around and cool the heat load + the electricity used by the tec. this can put A massive load on your cooling system. the end result is your tec maybe 20c lower than the water temp but due to the increase load to be cooled the water temp has gone up by 30c making the system point less.
This is also why you want kick ass radiators.

my app gives you ruff numbers of total watts the TEC's will need

next post ..

Ultrasonic2 (muffy) · 05-10-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingUp

T

Also, I've been using your TEC calc to run some numbers... could you possibly estimate a good C/W for me to use? The setup would be: 3/8 inch thick copper block (probably 2in x 5in or so) >> TECs >> another identical copper block >> two waterblocks. Obviously the two copper blocks would be bolted together with necessary force to get the most out of the TECs. I've seen .15 used in several examples, but I've also seen waterblocks that get down to .08 or so with good flow rates. As there's such a big difference in those, it really changes the numbers. My ambients are about 24 C in case that matters.

i could only guesstimate on hot side C/W's .. and would have a clue on cold side C/W i'd have to do some testing on it.

My app doesn't alow for Hot side C/W's for a million reasons .. im going to remake it solving a whole number of issues and the results would be the required hot side c/w to achieve a hot side temp of x.

C/W's are hard because they depend o how you test them. some manufactures just seem to make up numbers like D-Tek-Fuzion blocks ..
i suggest Swiftech's site as having somewhat realistic C/W .. when looking at C/W's on the hot side dont forget you have to have a waterblock C/W and a radiator C/W .. if you have multiple water blocks cooling the same load then theoretically the waterblocks c/w would be one waterblcoks C/W / the number you have .. total C/W will be this number plus the radiators C/w if you have lots of radiators then the same idea applies.

Now Swiftech lists its C/W's based on CPU load testing. a CPU is ver small relative to what your talking about so the real c/w of the waterblock will be less that what they say on their site. obviously having the 3/8 bit of copper and extra layer of thermal past puts it back up again

Ultrasonic2 (muffy) · 05-10-08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingUp

As for the water chiller route... I DO have access to a mill, but I don't really have to knowledge to use it. Like, I could ask a professor "hey, can you cut this block this size, and drill these holes" but not like "hey, let me do this really complicated water block". I don't know that much about chillers so I dunno... I'll definitely look into it.

chillers a great cause size doesn't matter as it doesn't have to fit against the cpu. so you can use may more TEC's to gain efficiency ..
They also make insulation some what easier because now there's only a normal sized waterblcok against the mbm If you change you MBM due to upgrade or socket change you just have to buy a new water block not make a new drect cooler block.

Down sides are they cost more cause now you have to buy another pump. though if you make the chillier your self it be cheaper than using heaps of bought waterblocks.

chiller block are simple to make. if you want them to be.
all you need is a fly cutter to make the flat . and a 3mm end mill .. then just cut slots down the block just like how a radiator works .. then slap some plastic on the top.

right im done for now .. iv'e spent 1 hour answering your questions .. cu

05-07-08	#2 (permalink)
Ultrasonic2 (muffy) Extreme Cooler Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland Posts: 701 Rep: 43 Unique Rep: 31 Trader Rating: 0	the Arctic Web block seems to come into stock the go out every now and again. i think you have a few options 1 pay your local engineering company to make you a block which, will be the most expensive. 2 get a machine shop to machine you up a nice flat block then mount TWO 226- 320 TEC's to it and cool the hot side with TWO apogee GT's This should work quite well but cooling a 6600 at 4g to ambient will be a tough job. You'll have to have a serious cooling system to cool your TEC's. Don't bother with anything less than TWO 120.3 radiators. you can checkout my website for more info on TEC cooling www.watercooling.co.nz I've got my old Quad TEC cooled by two water blocks on there, which may be of some interest.. Theirs plenty of things i'd do differently if i were to do it again but it's interesting. http://watercooling.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8 __________________ Watercooling System Radiators: 3x 240SGTS radiators in parallel to each other. Fans: 6x Scythe ULTRA KAZE 120 x 38 mm fans sucking though a 7cm shroud Pumps: 2x MCP655 pumps in series RES: 80x400mm Water Blocks:D-tek FuZion CPU (stock), Swiftech MCW60 GPU Controller: M-Cubed T-balancer BigNG adjusts fan speeds and pump speeds to keep my system at X temp CPU: INTEL 6600 GO GPU ATI 4850 HD Six disks in RAID 0 Last edited by Ultrasonic2 (muffy) : 05-07-08 at 05:29 AM.

05-09-08	#4 (permalink)
Ultrasonic2 (muffy) Extreme Cooler Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland Posts: 701 Rep: 43 Unique Rep: 31 Trader Rating: 0	yeah the 480 GTX will be fine .. is pretty much 2 480 gts's stuck together it should do the job fine. Do use a shroud though as that makes a big difference . if your custom making your waterblock then anything is possible. You should consider going down the water chillier rout if you've got the hardware to make blocks. Chillers solve a whole number of issues with directly mounted tecs __________________ Watercooling System Radiators: 3x 240SGTS radiators in parallel to each other. Fans: 6x Scythe ULTRA KAZE 120 x 38 mm fans sucking though a 7cm shroud Pumps: 2x MCP655 pumps in series RES: 80x400mm Water Blocks:D-tek FuZion CPU (stock), Swiftech MCW60 GPU Controller: M-Cubed T-balancer BigNG adjusts fan speeds and pump speeds to keep my system at X temp CPU: INTEL 6600 GO GPU ATI 4850 HD Six disks in RAID 0

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437 W TEC Waterblock OTHER than V8p or Arctic Web??

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