Phase Regassing Question - Overclock.net

**ira-k** · 04-02-09

I have an old Chilly 1 SS and its barely holding a 150W load at -30-34C. I have no idea what it's gassed with.

What would be the best gas to re-charge it with, R404 or R507? Or are there others better then that?

If I knew for sure it was gassed with R134 or R134A I'd just pump a little more R134A w/oil into it and see if it helped. I'd think he probably used a mix to charge it with initially.

Thanks

yomama9388 · 04-02-09

I wish I knew the answer to that, ask a builder like gomeler, or duniek will know the answer. Are you having an hvac technician recharge it or what?

Reflexive · 04-02-09

R404a and R507a are almost the same;
R404a has a glide due to it being a partial mix of primarily R507a and r134a.
Judging from your temperatures, it's probably NOT r134a; as this would be in a decently large vacuum on the low side to attain those temperature, much less hold a load.
There fore it's probably a gas with a boiling point more in the -40C range, R404a or R507a are very common and cheap, so a good guess with that on your part.

You can't simply add more though; that's not really how the idea works.

Can you get a technician with a gauge set to get a pressure reading? Superheat as well if he can.

d3str0y3r0fn00bs · 04-02-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira-k

I have an old Chilly 1 SS and its barely holding a 150W load at -30-34C. I have no idea what it's gassed with.

What would be the best gas to re-charge it with, R404 or R507? Or are there others better then that?

If I knew for sure it was gassed with R134 or R134A I'd just pump a little more R134A w/oil into it and see if it helped. I'd think he probably used a mix to charge it with initially.

Thanks

i think chilly1 was big into the r507, and i doubt it will be r134a because the load is way to low, r134a keeps around -30c at idle because of the boiling point. i would get it recharged with either r402a or 402b because they are 2nd and 3rd best at holding load and have the extreme low boiling points for a ss refridgerant, only thing better is r410a, which i wouldnt recomend with standard compressors as the psi gets rather extreme.

so basicly the order you shoudl try to get.
#1 402a
#2 402b
#3 507
#4 404a

for low budget use r290(aka propane)

those are the ones i recomend 1-4 personaly. if the person you have recharging it feels that the compressor can handle r410a you can, it will have much better temps and handle a higher load then the other top 4, its just that the psi is nearly 2-3x that of the others.

edit: beat me by 1 min reflexive... anyway as said above

**ira-k** · 04-02-09

Thanks. Those are the kind of answers I was looking for..

Yo I know a couple of guys here I can get to charge it, I just wanted to make sure they would use the proper gas. I have a old set of manifolds but I don't think they will even fit the newer Freon tanks. I haven't recharged a AC in 20 years or so and that manifold was old then.

Reflexive · 04-02-09

Quote:

i think chilly1 was big into the r507, and i doubt it will be r134a because the load is way to low, r134a keeps around -30c at idle because of the boiling point. i would get it recharged with either r402a or 402b because they are 2nd and 3rd best at holding load and have the extreme low boiling points for a ss refridgerant, only thing better is r410a, which i wouldnt recomend with standard compressors as the psi gets rather extreme.

so basicly the order you shoudl try to get.
#1 402a
#2 402b
#3 507
#4 404a

for low budget use r290(aka propane)

those are the ones i recomend 1-4 personaly. if the person you have recharging it feels that the compressor can handle r410a you can, it will have much better temps and handle a higher load then the other top 4, its just that the psi is nearly 2-3x that of the others.

edit: beat me by 1 min reflexive... anyway as said above

Some small inaccuracies here I'd like to clear up if you don't mind to much.
Any given refrigerant can hold any given load, there is nothing special about r134a that you can say "the load is too small". It's entirely system dependent.
Again at r402a or r402b comments, nothing to do with load.
Sure they have a lower boiling point, but they're critical pressures or temperatures and glides are much much different. In fact if it's a r134a compressor, I wouldn't put anything "higher pressure" than r507a or r408a past it. That eliminates r404a, r402a, r402b, isceon 89, care 1X, and r410a amongst others.
As for r410a though; it's a bit higher pressure, but nicely a higher critical temperature (as opposed to r22, with a very low critical temperature and lower pressure to match) so you have to worry about the compressor more, and less about the overall ability of the condenser to handle an insane discharge temp.
Either way, it is no where near 2-3x the psi. That would put it at 400-600psi high side?
Assuming you mean in a proper setup, because otherwise any refrigerant can get that high, r410a normally can peak around 300psi with a higher ambient temperature.
It's also why it's normally avoided for LBP operations.

**ira-k** · 04-02-09

Many Thanks again! I'm copying all this to file so when I break it down I'll have the info, appreciate it

This thing has a fairly small condenser on it, I was thinking about doing a push-pull on it with some higher cfm fans. The case ventilation is nill, other then just the single condenser fan, so that needs to be upgraded at the same time. I know thats very small gains, but it all adds up I guess.

I need to get another another mount and all that, when I do I'll take some pic's of the insides of it and if my manifold fits it I'll see if I can get a pressure reading.

d3str0y3r0fn00bs · 04-02-09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflexive

Some small inaccuracies here I'd like to clear up if you don't mind to much.
Any given refrigerant can hold any given load, there is nothing special about r134a that you can say "the load is too small". It's entirely system dependent.

well for one i ment the load temp on the proc. r134a boils at -26.3c and he says his load temp on the proc is -34c which is impossiable as the lowest you can get on r134a is -26.3c. and i am aware that a r134a system can be tuned to handle wattages in the thousands. mabye it was just my porly wored setance that caused this confusion.

Reflexive · 04-02-09

Quote:

well for one i ment the load temp on the proc. r134a boils at -26.3c and he says his load temp on the proc is -34c which is impossiable as the lowest you can get on r134a is -26.3c. and i am aware that a r134a system can be tuned to handle wattages in the thousands. mabye it was just my porly wored setance that caused this confusion.

Nope nope.
R134a can boil as low as absolute zero.
Infact, ALL liquids can get that low

R134a boils at that temperature at 1atm, or 0psi on a gauge tuned in atmospheric pressure.
Below that the temperature is of course lower.

		Overclock.net - Overclocking.net > Cooling > Phase Change
Phase Regassing Question

04-02-09	#3 (permalink)
Reflexive New to Overclock.net Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 97 Rep: 7 Unique Rep: 6 Trader Rating: 0	R404a and R507a are almost the same; R404a has a glide due to it being a partial mix of primarily R507a and r134a. Judging from your temperatures, it's probably NOT r134a; as this would be in a decently large vacuum on the low side to attain those temperature, much less hold a load. There fore it's probably a gas with a boiling point more in the -40C range, R404a or R507a are very common and cheap, so a good guess with that on your part. You can't simply add more though; that's not really how the idea works. Can you get a technician with a gauge set to get a pressure reading? Superheat as well if he can.

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