Penicilyn

Wow, someone has an opinion that differs from you and suddenly they're a moron... How close minded of you.

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FuNkDrSpOt

No, he's talking about opportunity. That's twisting the logic used to equate the two subjects. Again, if he worked 20 hrs and got paid for 10hrs then that would be like you guys trying to say that the software developers STILL made money, just less than they would have.


I understand the logic, you're using the softwares physical characteristic of being able to be replicated without any cost as a means to explain why you can steal the program. The point is though, if you've obtained the copy illegally, it's stealing. Period. Whether you take it out of a Circuit City without paying or you dL it off a torrent, it's the same end result.

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redsunx

Stargate: Before you go further in trying to justify our analogies, look up the word "lose" and post it please.

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stargate125645

Do you even read what you post? Why would I try to justify your analogy? That's your job, and none of you thieves have been able to do it.

And the only dictionary I have on hand is a German-English dictionary from years ago, so you'll have to look it up at www.m-w.com yourself.

And all you do is randomly pick a post to completely take out of context when replying to it.

RussianGrimmReaper

It is stealing, no one is trying to say it isn't; but to say that it is immoral is unjustifiable.

Like I've said before, you cannot lose money you do not already have. If a dev makes a game, sells it, and breaks even, they did not lose any money. However, they did not make any either. Now take into account that devs make 3-4 times as much money as it took to make a game.

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FuNkDrSpOt

Huh?
First off, how do you know they'll break even?
Second, how do you know that breaking even on designing the game will keep the company afloat while it creates another?

If making a successful game was that easy then far more companies would be in this business.

You guys are hella funny with all this spin. I'd have some respect for you if you'd just man up and say 'f**k it, it's stealing and i dont care'. Quit trying to justify something that isn't justifiable.

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FuNkDrSpOt

Sure you can. You can lose the potential to earn money.
AMD lost the potential to earn money when Intel did underhanded things. Did they ALREADY have money? No, but the POTENTIAL to earn more was lost.

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RussianGrimmReaper

I said the act of stealing is unjustifiable beyond our own greed. The morality of it is what is in question. Also, do devs actually lose money when a small percentage of people who wouldn't have bought their product either way download it illegally.A lot of potential things have been lost. Al Gore and John Kerry had the potential to become presidents of the US; they didn't though. In court an argument like yours would never stand a chance. "I had the chance to earn money, but they didn't buy my product because they didn't want to. I deserve monetary compensation from them because of this."

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iandh

Best it has been said so far.

Would you consider it immoral to march right into a circuit city, grab a piece of software off the shelf, go into the bathroom and remove the security tag, then waltz right out the front door with it?

If so, would you only consider it immoral because of the cost of the packaging?

The devs aren't worrying about the hardcore pirates, the they are hurt by the borderline pirates, the ones who would have purchased the game if their friend hadn't passed them a cracked copy.

Think of the borderline pirates as users and the hardcore pirates as dealers. The minority few that never pay for software, IMO are the ones that cost the studios the most money. They are the ones that download the torrents and may distribute them to their friends on disc with cracks, or may encourage their activity.

Those people in my mind are by far the worst offenders.

stargate125645

Yes and no. There are plenty of people who don't believe it is stealing. And if you admit it is stealing, then you have to admit it is wrong. And by wrong, it is, by definition, immoral.