xTorvos

1. Pirating is illegal. If someone wants to "try out" a game, they can play the demo, rent it (console), or borrow it from a friend (IRL).

2. People pirate. It's a fact of life; if people are willing to break into a store and steal stuff IRL, they are certainly willing to DL "information" for free with <1% chance to get thrown in jail.

3. Having a flame war and expressing your opinion about either of numbers 1 or 2 will have no impact on whether the parties supporting numbers 1 or 2 win or lose.

4. /thread.

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Be a man. Chances are, you won't die; but, if you do, at least you won't make the same mistake twice.

92.3% of people believe every statistic that they encounter.

RussianGrimmReaper

Either way I am stealing a product. In this case, the software dev looses no money because it has sold the product to the store. The store looses money. You cannot compare physically stealing something to downloading a copy, it's just not the same. If I download something, it does not cost the dev to make the packaging, ship it, market it, and such. I do admit though, it costs them in man power to actually create the software, but, (this is where the greedy nature of humans comes in which no one can truly deny unless you aren't human.) I don't care if the devs miss out on a few dollars that I would have given them. If they really wanted my money, they better make something special.I said it's stealing, whether it's morally wrong depends only on the individual. One person may consider it immoral and think it is the same as stealing a physical object, another may consider it a copy of a copy of a copy (etc etc) and think of it as nothing more than entertainment only to be thrown away.

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xTorvos

Although I think my earlier post covers all arguements, I do have to agree with this part of Reaper's comment. It seems now-a-days that all RTS's FPS's, and RPG's are the exact same game with a different graphical layout. Back in the old days, before certain types of games began to take over the market, every single game was completely different. ATM all games are similar in their feel, plot, and HUD. I'm sorry to say it, but I feel like I'm constantly replaying the same game. This is what drives a person to pirate. If a developer wants a game to actually SELL, then they need to make something that no one has seen before. Something that catches your eye because it is creative--and preferably not costing $50.

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Be a man. Chances are, you won't die; but, if you do, at least you won't make the same mistake twice.

92.3% of people believe every statistic that they encounter.

rx7speed

that is a very untrue blanket statement.
I've known of quite a few people that make quite a bit of money but would rather spend that money on something on something else if they can get their software for free.

it's not just the poor that pirate.

I've also seem many people who have to scround for 4-5 months to buy that new game at 50bucks cause they won't pirate.

just because your poor doesn't mean you can't buy legit.

for those saying being poor is and excuse cause you couldn't afford it as is I would venture to say many of you are still with your parents. it's one of those things that you can afford to buy it if you wanted to. the question is what is it you are willing to give up to do so?





they might on some games make more then what it cost to produce. that is the goal of companies. not always though is a profit to be made. over the last 20 years how many companies have seen seen come and go or get merged together due to lackluster profits? With that in mind one think of this also. a company spends 25 million to make a game and earn 100 million on the game. that leaves a profit of 75million. lets say they had a potential though to make 150 million on the game though and 50 million of it was not recouped due to piracy. your right they still turned a profit of 75 million though of money that was not there before. now the company goes and creates more games at 40 million a pop but each game only brings home 10 million. that would bring a cost of 120 million yet sales of only 30 million for a loss of 90million bucks for those three games.
so lets say out of the total of these four games for the year that brings the company now to
-25+100=75 and -40+10=-30x3 for a total profit of the year of -15million. if the company was able to recoup that extra 50 million on that first game (this isn't even counting losses that might of happened on the other 3 games either) then they would of still at least been in the black by 35 million. so did they earn money or lose money with this situation?


a loss of profits is still lost money. it might not be in the typical sense of lost money which your analogy shows and with that you are correct but in the grand scheme of things it is still lost money in other senses.



just as a ps on this. it's not that I am anti-pirate. that's not and if you knew me you would understand but I do believe this cost the game devs money.

nathris

Wow 13 pages of people talking about piracy and this hasn't been closed, thats gotta be a record!

I'm a pirate, I'm not going to deny it, but at least for me, nearly everything I pirate are things I would never buy anyway, even if piracy didn't exist. So via my twisted sense of morality its ok. If I download it and find out I like it chances are I'll buy it anyway. I have bought legit copies of more than a few games, including CoD4 that way. But a good example of this is Civ4, I like the game, but I play it maybe two days a month, and thats not worth spending the $30 it currently costs. If it were to drop down to $20 with Warlords then I would certainly snatch it up.


Although I agree with all of the (whats the proper name for a pirate hunter?) in that pirating for the sake of say playing online multiplayer is wrong (with the exception where they want you to pay $20/month for it ). I believe that if you choose to pirate a game it should be like more of an extended demo, where you can play through the single player, but multiplayer, which determines the replay value, and consequently whether most people buy the game, should be off limits.


(And I have to be a little bit skeptical about stats taken from mininova, 1 million CoD4 pirates? Are there even 1 million CoD4 players?!?)

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im_not_an_artard

uhh... has anyone here ever heard of gamefly, blockbuster, or video game reviews?? that solves 99% of your demo problems right there


And the retard talking about how your not losing, your just not gaining as much, your just playing around with definitions. D/ling a game is just the same as taking it off a shelf and playing it, therefore the company put money into a product, but received no money in return for its services of creating the game THUS IT IS A LOSS

and piracy is stealing. period.

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ENTERPRISE

I do not condone piracy. However I can understand why people may consider it to try a game that they yet do not have full confidence in. I am just seeing other points of views. I am not saying its ok to pirate.

However I think Game developers would help themselves a little more by creating more games on a great storyline. It seems storyline has gone out of the window for graphics.

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Mjolnir

Let's apply this logic to the rest of the world:

Car lot: Yeah, I'm gonna take this car and drive it for a while, if I like it, I may return and pay for it....maybe.

Movie Theatre: Let me in. I'm gonna watch this movie. If I like it (and I probably won't) I'll come back out afterwards and give you some money.

Restaurant: Bring me steak. Now, normally I wouldn't buy a steak, but since I can get it for free, bring me a steak. Maybe if I like it, I'll leave some money on the table.

Good luck either obtaining the merchandise or not getting arrested in any one of these scenarios.

Stealing is stealing. Run your twisted little logic through the wringer. Justify it from hither to yon. In the end, you are taking the fruits of someone's labors and not giving then anything in return.

Parasites.

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Mjolnir

I'm gonna start a list of all the most ridiculous excuses I've heard for why people steal.

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Work Harder! Millions on Welfare Depend on You!

NuclearCrap

It's not the games that's the problem. Over the years, games just get more and more expensive. I used to be able to buy a new game for $30, but now when you look at the X360/PS3 shelves they're all $60. Those people would rather spend the extra to get someone to mod their systems so they can pirate games.

If game developers are willing to lower price I'm sure people would actually start buying them. Or they can even try step-by-step payment. For example, you give the first mission for free as a demo, but if you want to go on, pay a few bucks, and if you want unlimited access to multiplayer, pay $10 or so. This way the consumers can choose how much to pay for a game, and if they don't like it, then leave it without paying for the second half of something they don't like. Apparently the traditional method of selling games for a high one-time price is failing.

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