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[Ars] Small areas of the brain go to sleep when we're up too late - Page 4

post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombom View Post
Drugs. For example, amphetamines. They probably over-ride this sensation and activate the neurons anyways.

Also, for people thinking about "human stand mode" I assume that most sleep medications affect the brain in very similar ways to what happens with sleep deprivation. I assume that the "local sleep" is chemically driven. It makes sense that maybe sleep medications will use the chemical in order to prime this sort of response. If they don't do this already, it's possible that we can isolate the drug that causes it.
Amphetamines are very unique, they don't exactly "stimulate" the brain in the way we think they do... I would explain but I'm not exactly sure, it's what I decided to go to school for. All I currently know is you right and wrong. =S

What I really wanted comment on was the sleep meds. All drugs, ALL DRUGS, cause sleep problems. At least all known "mood altering drugs" prevent/postpone you from going past stage 2 sleep. This is a huge problem, cause if you can't go past stage 2 you don't get 3/4 which are required. Now, you can make up sleep stages but at a cost. From what we know, lost sleep is lost sleep. You can't "make up" sleep, ever. However you can fix your sleep pattern over time but you forever lose the benefits of sleeping that night.

This is also why being an alcoholic makes you tired, or a sign of being an alcoholic is the feeling of always being tired. You aren't getting the right sleep, mainly because you always have alcohol in your system. This causes you to have an erratic sleep schedule and causes sleep deprivation. (though it's all addicts, with the exception of certain stimulants and a few drugs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by codejunki View Post
Ya its called drugs, and its the main reason why meth is so bad, your body does these things to keep you as healthy as you can mentally and physically but meth (and all sorts of other uppers) do the opposite.

Crap- ninja'ed
NO! Meth in itself isn't bad, period. What it does do is push your body past it's physical limits if you use it too much. Meth can be prescribed, as well as Ritalyn/Adderall are dumbed down versions. Adderall is actually a cocktail of drugs, stimulants/amphetamines and such. It's only how you use it which makes it dangerous.

In all reality it doesn't "stimulate" the brain but rather it stimulates certain nerve clusters to be active and produce certain chemicals. Things like raising dopamine and Serotonin levels. This can give the illusion of being more awake and aware, stimulated, but doesn't really make your brain work faster.

Go read up on what parts of the brain are known to affect awareness and how you perceive/make decisions. It will give you a huge insight on how this works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codejunki View Post
About 90% recreational drugs out there either speed up/slow down the body. Uppers increase CNS activity and downers decrease it.

CNS- Central nervous system.
Yes and no, it's not exactly speeding up or slowing down. It's more like they either inhibit or allow (maybe even increase) neural activity. They could, for example, inhibit the absorption of epinephrine (adrenaline). It's not quite as simple as slow it down or speed it up, because that's very very vague.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concorde105 View Post
No wonder I find it so hard to get motivated to do my homework on the few times I get less than 6 hours of sleep a night... Usually I get 6 hours and it's hard enough already.
It also prevents you from remembering and processing your information, at least that's the word. Current theory has sleep linked to the processing and storing of long term memory/information for later. We are currently unsure exactly what it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
If we consume food for energy via calories, then why must mammals still sleep? I know this is a very elementary sounding question but it's always made me ponder. Even when we sleep we are never truly "shut down". Being completely shut down means being dead. So whilst we sleep what is recharging and what isn't ya'know? I remember reading about a theory saying that mammals sleep because it's a mechanism that forces us to conserve energy due to the scarcity of resources (i.e. food).
We don't know, it's actually a mystery as we shouldn't need sleep. Some animals sleep, but on a completely different level being somewhat conscious of their surroundings. Take cats for example, the reason why it's almost impossible to "scare" them when they are sleeping is because they are aware of the sounds around them. It's not thought of as the same type of sleep we get, where we shut off all of our senses but one. You cannot shut off visual stimulation, it's why we believe that even though we have eyelids the eyes roll back into the head. You get less light, less stimulation, the brain has less to ignore/process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyncMaster753 View Post
There's just always been the rhythm of day/night. And we've developed with that in mind
NO! We were originally thought to have a 4hr sleep cycles. We now know that there are nocturnal people but still can't prove the original sleep cycle. Through watching of nomadic people, and infants, we believe that we trained ourselves to do this day/night pattern. Before "advanced" civilization we just slept, wherever and whenever.

At least, that's the current beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heinz357 View Post
Great, so my biological C&Q kicks in after X amount of waking hours, and the only way to enter bios to shut it off is with illegal drugs??

...no Officer, its for Overclocking use only!!

...I wonder if I can 'download' THC-Z to find out where my clocks are set, and what frequency I'm running at?!
I only wanted to comment on this because they have actually debated using stimulants, or a cocktail of drugs like Adderall, to be mental enhancements. Think steroids for the brain! Why not, we did create and use steroids too.

[edit] I always read comments first, to decide whether or not I want to read the article. I got side tracked in commenting and read it after I wrote all this.

As for on par with the article, it is actually something that we've somewhat known for years. It's close to the phenomenon of what we call waking dreams. Sleep deprived hallucinations, the brain starts to go into a dormant/dream state while you are consciously active. This is probably the same thing on a smaller scale and doesn't hit it's full peak until you start to hallucinate. Of course eventually your body shuts down and forces sleep, which you will know when that happens. Trust me, you'll know.
Edited by mushroomboy - 4/29/11 at 1:40pm
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post #32 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concorde105 View Post
No wonder I find it so hard to get motivated to do my homework on the few times I get less than 6 hours of sleep a night... Usually I get 6 hours and it's hard enough already.
Apparently those who spend less time sleeping and more time working tend to do a significantly better job then those who get a proper nights sleep.
Edited by Domino - 4/29/11 at 1:40pm
post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
What I really wanted comment on was the sleep meds. All drugs, ALL DRUGS, cause sleep problems. At least all known "mood altering drugs" prevent/postpone you from going past stage 2 sleep. This is a huge problem, cause if you can't go past stage 2 you don't get 3/4 which are required. Now, you can make up sleep stages but at a cost. From what we know, lost sleep is lost sleep. You can't "make up" sleep, ever. However you can fix your sleep pattern over time but you forever lose the benefits of sleeping that night.
By my understanding, the longer you stay awake the more active your RM sleep is. You do tend to "make up" for that sleep by this activity.
post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aden Florian View Post
I wonder how/if you can wake those parts of the brain back up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombom View Post
Drugs. For example, amphetamines. They probably over-ride this sensation and activate the neurons anyways.
And Adrenaline.
post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
By my understanding, the longer you stay awake the more active your RM sleep is. You do tend to "make up" for that sleep by this activity.
Yes and no. Lets say you don't hit all the REM sleep you need, the next time you sleep you may stay in REM longer than you normally would. This is because you are lacking sleep in the REM stages. After a long enough time though that doesn't even work and you can't even "make up" the REM sleep. This goes for all levels, if you miss stage 1/2/3/4 too much you will sleep in whatever stage you missed longer.

Get what I mean? You don't really make it up but in a way you do. It's still a mess though, as all we currently use to define the stages of sleep are wave patterns. =(
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post #36 of 66
My uncreative part of the brain sleeps when I'm up late, because I make crazy Minecraft creations when it's late.
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post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Yes and no. Lets say you don't hit all the REM sleep you need, the next time you sleep you may stay in REM longer than you normally would. This is because you are lacking sleep in the REM stages. After a long enough time though that doesn't even work and you can't even "make up" the REM sleep. This goes for all levels, if you miss stage 1/2/3/4 too much you will sleep in whatever stage you missed longer.

Get what I mean?
Hmm... I'm going to have to pull my old notes. But I see what your saying.

Quote:
You don't really make it up but in a way you do. It's still a mess though, as all we currently use to define the stages of sleep are wave patterns. =(
Ya, its unfortunate. One of the big interests for first semester was on sleep. Would be interesting if I continued psych instead of Engineering.

I find it interesting how our REM sleep wave patterns are not much different then when we are awake. It sort of backs what you are saying in your above post.
post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Yes and no. Lets say you don't hit all the REM sleep you need, the next time you sleep you may stay in REM longer than you normally would.
Your right in regards to making up lost REM sleep, as you said if you don't get the necessary amount of REM sleep the next time you fall asleep you will make up that lost time I believe it's called "REM rebound", but we eventually build up a "sleep debt" so big that this process almost become redundant.
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post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Amphetamines are very unique, blah blah blah...
> name is mushroomboy
> spreading unbaised, reasonable information about drugs
> knowledge stemming from interest about brain function

Rep. You're okay in my book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moe112 View Post
Your right in regards to making up lost REM sleep, as you said if you don't get the necessary amount of REM sleep the next time you fall asleep you will make up that lost time I believe it's called "REM rebound", but we eventually build up a "sleep debt" so big that this process almost become redundant.
AP Psychology is coming back to me. I loved that class. Full of bull, but intedesting nonetheless.
Edited by dzalias - 4/29/11 at 8:31pm
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post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by moe112 View Post
Your right in regards to making up lost REM sleep, as you said if you don't get the necessary amount of REM sleep the next time you fall asleep you will make up that lost time I believe it's called "REM rebound", but we eventually build up a "sleep debt" so big that this process almost become redundant.
Indeed! I still have my psychology power points. If you want to see them I can show you.

Puppies and Kittens spend 100% of their time REM sleeping.

No wonder I can move them and not wake them.
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