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[TeN] ARM thinks it can get AMD to drop x86 - Page 5

post #41 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by sccr64472 View Post
Not that it really matters to this discussion, but ARM doesn't manufacture chips. They design them and make money off of patents and royalties. ARM was actually co founded by Apple. I'm a shareholder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers

One of their products the atom used the 6502. Apple bought up their education division.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502
Edited by Hephasteus - 4/28/11 at 10:40pm
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post #42 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedark1337 View Post
why would a mobile CPU manufacturer ask a desktop/laptop CPU manufacturer to drop x86?
I'm guessing ARM wants to 1) Gain the Fusion technology and 2) Maybe try to move into the desktop/laptop sector?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th0m0_202 View Post
if they also made arm cpu's it would be good. but x86 is were they make money so *** would they drop it?
Smartphones sell decently now and the amount of people buying them is increasing, add in the fact that the majority of the world will have a smartphone that plugs into a screen to become a computer in a few years time instead of a computer as we know it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
That's a complicated question.

If you're talking about hardware.... To get better performance, the hardware has to do more "tricks". This is why x86 CPUs use a magnitude more power than ARM ones. Desktop CPUs have to do very complex path prediction which increases power draw but provides better performance.

If you're talking about instruction set alone.... don't quite know.
You have to remember x86 is very inefficient for an architecture at the core, all the tricks have helped tremendously but at it's core it was always horrid. (Compare the original x86 chip, the 8086 to say, the Motorola 68000.)

While I don't know how good ARM is, if it does hit desktops (Which it will, I bet), you have to remember that there's also tricks that can be done to ARM chips as well as x86, so performance will increase from what it is now, but I wouldn't be surprised if at their base, ARM as an architecture is faster than x86.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty View Post
if intel says x86 lives on it will live on ... trust me on this ....
Not really, if ARM chips completely own x86 chips and MS has a way of making applications work on both ARM and x86 versions of Windows then I could see ARM taking out x86 whether Intel wants it to or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post
Lol, ok. ARM, as it is is inherently simple and weak compared to x86. I don't see it, especially with AMD about t launch dozer and already have more planned
How so? x86 has many, many "patched in" improvements to it which ARM doesn't have but possibly could gain in a desktop rig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL_Wut_Axel View Post
Absolutely freaking no. What the hell are you doing, ARM? You're destroying processors as we know them today if this happens.
People go for what is cheapest to a certain limit, hence why we have x86...The 68000 was far better, but the 8086 won out because (Shock horror) the 8088 was far cheaper to use in a full computer.
    
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post #43 of 85
You have to remember that modern x86 CPUs don't really have much x86 architecture in them. They have a tiny, tiny, fraction devoted to translating x86 instructions into what is actually executed.

Plenty of supposedly superior architectures have come and gone because they are not faster per dollar, nor per watt, than modern x86 implimentations.

Even if ARM is "better" that is no guarantee that ARM can design a chip that could compete with Intel or AMDs x86 designs in the desktop space, even if comparability is not a concern.

That said, I would be quite interested in seeing what ARM could do if scaled up to the 10-100w power envelope.
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post #44 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
You have to remember that modern x86 CPUs don't really have much x86 architecture in them. They have a tiny, tiny, fraction devoted to translating x86 instructions into what is actually executed.

Plenty of supposedly superior architectures have come and gone because they are not faster per dollar, nor per watt, than modern x86 implimentations.

Even if ARM is "better" that is no guarantee that ARM can design a chip that could compete with Intel or AMDs x86 designs in the desktop space, even if comparability is not a concern.

That said, I would be quite interested in seeing what ARM could do if scaled up to the 10-100w power envelope.

Modern x86 cores are actually RISC processors. They literally just translate a single CISC instruction into a series of atomic RISC instructions that are really no different than ARM.



Moving to ARM is the best thing that could possibly happen to the industry. Intel owns x86, and the only reason they haven't bullied AMD out of the picture is because AMD owns some critical patents (like x86_64) and for anti-trust reasons.

A major shift to ARM would allow manufacturers like nVidia and Qualcomm to enter the high performance CPU market, and that can only be a good thing, since it means more competition, more innovation, and lower prices.
    
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post #45 of 85
One day, everyone will have legacy x86 chips on their motherboards.
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post #46 of 85
Brutuz, Blameless and nathris hit the points nicely.

ARM will enter the desktop market. It is just a matter of when. OS's like MAC OS and Windows need to on a kernel level support ARM and its small architecture. This has been argued many many times before.

Intel has a patent with x86. Everything has been developed around it. In order to allow future architectures to support older solutions, you need to have support for x86.

A work around for certain mathematical hardware accelerations for older tech is to do it in software on ARM as a means of continued support.
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post #47 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMC View Post
Brutuz, Blameless and nathris hit the points nicely.

ARM will enter the desktop market. It is just a matter of when. OS's like MAC OS and Windows need to on a kernel level support ARM and its small architecture. This has been argued many many times before.

Intel has a patent with x86. Everything has been developed around it. In order to allow future architectures to support older solutions, you need to have support for x86.

A work around for certain mathematical hardware accelerations for older tech is to do it in software on ARM as a means of continued support.
Or just use a hard-wired legacy chip.
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post #48 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzalias View Post
Or just use a hard-wired legacy chip.
Yes that is another option. Hard wired to the motherboard could work, or on the die itself like the GPU on sandy bridge. Either way I think it needs to change.....
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post #49 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post
Lol, ok. ARM, as it is is inherently simple and weak compared to x86.
Please elaborate.
Genuine request... I know little of ARm
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post #50 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedark1337 View Post
why would a mobile CPU manufacturer ask a desktop/laptop CPU manufacturer to drop x86?
They're not just a mobile CPU maker.


The real question is why would AMD commit suicide and drop x86?
    
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