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Gigabyte X58A-OC vs. Gigabyte X58A-UD7 - Page 10

post #91 of 135
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Originally Posted by driftingforlife;13380424 

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post #92 of 135
let me makes 3 things clear:
#1 that tech needs to be removed from telephone service
#2 Hicookie WORKS for Gigabyte and is PART of GIGABYTE, He isn't an engineer, he designed the board in terms of layout and requested features. They had a whole team directly working on this board. hicookie pushed for features and ripple control, and ease of use. So saying the board is not part of GB is a lie, and i doubt you ever talked to a GB tech,
#3 this board does have structural enhancements to make it a better overclocking board, you just wont notice it unless you go subzero. If you look on HWBot you don't many if any WRs with X58A-UD7, you do see them with the X58A-OC and its not even released. The truth of the matter is that this board has improved many max overclocks for many users. I was able to catch higher max OC on my 930, upto 4.63ghz with cpu-z validation. max i could never do on the UD5 rev 2.0 was 4.5ghz. Why? Two reasons: first the buttons, using software to reach your max clocks inside windows causes load that can crash the processors. The second is because of the design of the X58A-OC and its ability to boast on average a higher max blck than my UD5.

Also LSDMEASAP you might like this, I talked to cookie the other day and he told me on this board you can push 1.5v through the IOH easily.

I am VERY sorry to say kungpow this but you don't understand motherboards well enough, so here is some explanation:

I am not the first to say this but the buttons on this board really are one of the best parts of this board. With no other boards can you control as many aspects of frequency manually as much as you can with this board. Other boards can control multiplier or blck, one can even do both, but GB also gives the option of toning down how much BLCK you can use.

Next comes the VRM and it has been reworked for every power supply on the board. your tech guy seems like he has never used an X58A-OC nor has he ever talked to hicookie.

ill say it again you just don't understand this board. It makes life easier, and also has two things that will help improve the OC, the VRM improvements and the buttons.

With other boards ripple is a problem and impedes the OC. let me explain a few things to you that your tech seems not to understand.
#1 switching frequency is directly related to overshoot, undershoot, and ripple
#2 as X58 processors are designed, if you go over a processors comfortable Vcore it will crash and act weird and refuse to operate. You need to be at very low temps to see this affect, and for instance 1.9v is ok at -120C, but only can use 1.85v at -150C. the colder a processor is and the higher frequency is has the more current will run, and increasing Vcore may actually be bad. Every processor has a certain sweet spot and you have to stay exactly as the sweet spot. When put under load you need to stay within the sweet spot, and not go something like 50mv over nor under or it will crash. This board can do that.
#3 below

lets get started, all of GB's 24 phase designs are the same, except the UD9 uses two 6 phase PWMs instead of one, this helps reduce ripple and then helps transient response, two VERY important things when dealing with high clocks like 7ghz.

For the X58A-OC they cut the phases down in half, but they added inductors that can pass much more current, which allows a total of 420amps of output, almost that of the 24 phase VRM which is at 480. But at the same time they added POSCaps and the same 6 phase PWM. Together you have the best if not one of the best VRM on any board to date. This VRM has so little ripple that what you set is what you get.

So what does this have to do with OCing?
Well when you are under LN2 your CPU only like so much vcore, too much and it will shut down(it wont die), but it will not clock high when the vcore surpasses the comfortable point. If you have ripple this can push the vcore over the point where the processor hates it, and then you aren't able to use as much Vcore as you should be able too.

At the same time the processor is going to pull 200-300amps from the VRM, putting it in high load. This makes is extremely difficult to run a benchmark like 3dmark Vantage where teh processor load will vary so much with time.


Another factor, switching frequency should be lower in cased where load is lower and vcore is lower. I have found that lowering the Switching frequency from 1000khz to 600khz helps a ton when going for max clock, but then going for high benchmark with full load 1000khz is the easiest way.

When benching sometimes during odd 3d benchmarks like AM3 lowering the frequency can help improve the score of the benchmark. the X58A-OC can do this with the touch of a button.
So how does the OC improve OC and benchmarking experience?
#1 the user has total control in real time, so you can change the ripple control, change load control, change multiplier, change blck in .3 and 1mhz steps.
#2 the entire board with POSCaps means that power delivery is cleaner, less ripple, and faster response. in the end more stability. When going down to -50C normal aluminum solid capacitors fluctuate their ESR and ESL so much that ripple is HEAVILY increased. in real time POSCAps are rated for -50C while normal solid state capacitors are not.
#3 the board is quicker and easier to insulate, resulting in many less deaths from condensation.
#4 the board has extra power plugs which are NEEDED. One is fine for normal clocking and even most subzero OC clocking, you can always solder wires directly to the board for many mobos, but its required for 7ghz load environments. Normal plug only allows like 500watts.
#5 GPU spacing is a given and its not a big deal, it wont help OCing.
#6 less resources on the mobo, as in less USB lan and audio free up CPU and RAm and PCI-E bandwidth resources. In the end more power and more resources are available for other things.
#7 the board is mighty convenient to use, and is the latest in GB X58 boards. GB has made so many improvments to blck to IOH to PCI-E and to over overclocking frequencies and things that this final revision for X58 will most likley OC better than teh other boards.




Only problem?

You gotta understand motherboards and how they work to understand the benefits.

Will you see OC improvements under Air? kind of, ONLY FOR MAX CLOCKS and Vcore WILL BE LESS than other GB boards i stake my reputation on it because I have seen it on my own two processors. Lower Vcore isn't going to help your clocks, but it will help your temps, and only temps can help clocks.

Will you see improvements under Dry ICe? yes
Will you see improvements under LN2? yes the most.


Why did you get the answers you got? because either you made them up, to make yourself feel better, or the guy knew that you are just an OCer who isn't going to be able to benefit much from it. I am surprised he said yea its cool to upgrade to a UD7 from your UD5 LOL, that makes as much sense as buying an X58A-OC instead of the UD7.
BTW stock on this board is mighty limited.

Final word, with an X58A-UD7 help your overclocking? not
Will and X58A-OC? it might, because the board has potential.


What is funny about that guy in the video is that he doesn't know the final price. i am in contact with GB everyday almost. The final price hasn't been set, but its not going to be 100 more than originally thought.
Edited by Sin0822 - 5/4/11 at 12:49pm
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post #93 of 135
But Sin... power delivery has nothing to do with stability. Kung Pow already told us this!

The marketing guy at GB told him!


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post #94 of 135
lol GB marketing is better trained than that! LOL
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post #95 of 135
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822;13381056 
let me makes 3 things clear:
#1 that tech needs to be removed from telephone service
#2 Hicookie WORKS for Gigabyte and is PART of GIGABYTE, He isn't an engineer, he designed the board in terms of layout and requested features. They had a whole team directly working on this board. hicookie pushed for features and ripple control, and ease of use. So saying the board is not part of GB is a lie, and i doubt you ever talked to a GB tech,
#3 this board does have structural enhancements to make it a better overclocking board, you just wont notice it unless you go subzero. If you look on HWBot you don't many if any WRs with X58A-UD7, you do see them with the X58A-OC and its not even released. The truth of the matter is that this board has improved many max overclocks for many users. I was able to catch higher max OC on my 930, upto 4.63ghz with cpu-z validation. max i could never do on the UD5 rev 2.0 was 4.5ghz. Why? Two reasons: first the buttons, using software to reach your max clocks inside windows causes load that can crash the processors. The second is because of the design of the X58A-OC and its ability to boast on average a higher max blck than my UD5.

Also LSDMEASAP you might like this, I talked to cookie the other day and he told me on this board you can push 1.5v through the IOH easily.

I am VERY sorry to say kungpow this but you don't understand motherboards well enough, so here is some explanation:

I am not the first to say this but the buttons on this board really are one of the best parts of this board. With no other boards can you control as many aspects of frequency manually as much as you can with this board. Other boards can control multiplier or blck, one can even do both, but GB also gives the option of toning down how much BLCK you can use.

Next comes the VRM and it has been reworked for every power supply on the board. your tech guy seems like he has never used an X58A-OC nor has he ever talked to hicookie.

ill say it again you just don't understand this board. It makes life easier, and also has two things that will help improve the OC, the VRM improvements and the buttons.

With other boards ripple is a problem and impedes the OC. let me explain a few things to you that your tech seems not to understand.
#1 switching frequency is directly related to overshoot, undershoot, and ripple
#2 as X58 processors are designed, if you go over a processors comfortable Vcore it will crash and act weird and refuse to operate. You need to be at very low temps to see this affect, and for instance 1.9v is ok at -120C, but only can use 1.85v at -150C. the colder a processor is and the higher frequency is has the more current will run, and increasing Vcore may actually be bad. Every processor has a certain sweet spot and you have to stay exactly as the sweet spot. When put under load you need to stay within the sweet spot, and not go something like 50mv over nor under or it will crash. This board can do that.
#3 below

lets get started, all of GB's 24 phase designs are the same, except the UD9 uses two 6 phase PWMs instead of one, this helps reduce ripple and then helps transient response, two VERY important things when dealing with high clocks like 7ghz.

For the X58A-OC they cut the phases down in half, but they added inductors that can pass much more current, which allows a total of 420amps of output, almost that of the 24 phase VRM which is at 480. But at the same time they added POSCaps and the same 6 phase PWM. Together you have the best if not one of the best VRM on any board to date. This VRM has so little ripple that what you set is what you get.

So what does this have to do with OCing?
Well when you are under LN2 your CPU only like so much vcore, too much and it will shut down(it wont die), but it will not clock high when the vcore surpasses the comfortable point. If you have ripple this can push the vcore over the point where the processor hates it, and then you aren't able to use as much Vcore as you should be able too.

At the same time the processor is going to pull 200-300amps from the VRM, putting it in high load. This makes is extremely difficult to run a benchmark like 3dmark Vantage where teh processor load will vary so much with time.


Another factor, switching frequency should be lower in cased where load is lower and vcore is lower. I have found that lowering the Switching frequency from 1000khz to 600khz helps a ton when going for max clock, but then going for high benchmark with full load 1000khz is the easiest way.

When benching sometimes during odd 3d benchmarks like AM3 lowering the frequency can help improve the score of the benchmark. the X58A-OC can do this with the touch of a button.
So how does the OC improve OC and benchmarking experience?
#1 the user has total control in real time, so you can change the ripple control, change load control, change multiplier, change blck in .3 and 1mhz steps.
#2 the entire board with POSCaps means that power delivery is cleaner, less ripple, and faster response. in the end more stability. When going down to -50C normal aluminum solid capacitors fluctuate their ESR and ESL so much that ripple is HEAVILY increased. in real time POSCAps are rated for -50C while normal solid state capacitors are not.
#3 the board is quicker and easier to insulate, resulting in many less deaths from condensation.
#4 the board has extra power plugs which are NEEDED. One is fine for normal clocking and even most subzero OC clocking, you can always solder wires directly to the board for many mobos, but its required for 7ghz load environments. Normal plug only allows like 500watts.
#5 GPU spacing is a given and its not a big deal, it wont help OCing.
#6 less resources on the mobo, as in less USB lan and audio free up CPU and RAm and PCI-E bandwidth resources. In the end more power and more resources are available for other things.
#7 the board is mighty convenient to use, and is the latest in GB X58 boards. GB has made so many improvments to blck to IOH to PCI-E and to over overclocking frequencies and things that this final revision for X58 will most likley OC better than teh other boards.




Only problem?

You gotta understand motherboards and how they work to understand the benefits.

Will you see OC improvements under Air? kind of, ONLY FOR MAX CLOCKS and Vcore WILL BE LESS than other GB boards i stake my reputation on it because I have seen it on my own two processors. Lower Vcore isn't going to help your clocks, but it will help your temps, and only temps can help clocks.

Will you see improvements under Dry ICe? yes
Will you see improvements under LN2? yes the most.


Why did you get the answers you got? because either you made them up, to make yourself feel better, or the guy knew that you are just an OCer who isn't going to be able to benefit much from it. I am surprised he said yea its cool to upgrade to a UD7 from your UD5 LOL, that makes as much sense as buying an X58A-OC instead of the UD7.
BTW stock on this board is mighty limited.

Final word, with an X58A-UD7 help your overclocking? not
Will and X58A-OC? it might, because the board has potential.


What is funny about that guy in the video is that he doesn't know the final price. i am in contact with GB everyday almost. The final price hasn't been set, but its not going to be 100 more than originally thought.

I have never claimed to be the motherboard specialst.
My area of profession is GPU and Watercooling still know I enough about boards to say this:


1.)What you listed there is very nice and I see you have already aclimated to the "Gigabyte" way of explaining a simple process and trying to make it sound extremely complex^^
You don´t need to sell the board man:)

All the things you listed are fine.
But I can only say this so many times: The OC´s ultimate agenda and purpose in its creation is not to improve or enhance overclocking efficiency, overclocking stability or overclocking durability rather than making overclocking itself and the handling of the board more conveniant for extreme enthusiast´s needs.


2.)We are talking about overclocking here.
The process of overclocking itself isn´t very complex considering the average knowledge required to perform a simple overclock these days with all the BIOS features , Guides, FAQ´s etc ...only when you are willing to go deeper and really understand every single process that is performed in order to be able to overclock more efficiently it becomes highly complicated.

Still, and overclock is done on the CPU and you can power delivery features, VRM modifications and phase inductors etc etc at the end of the day your CPU decides how efficient it overclocks , how far it overclocks and how stable it overclocks.
Motherboard features and the intelligence behind your chosen BIOS settings for this overclock of course influence the quality of the OC by let´s say 10-15% but they do not controll or overlap like you are trying to make it sound half of the time.
The chip decides and yields the authority over the overclock Motherboard and actual BIOS settings are passangers which are trying to give it directions.
Imagine it like a rally car:)

3.)Comparing the OC and UD7 is actually not a very clever comparison (shame on me ninja.gif )

Because both boards have different target groups and purposes.
Still if you only concentrate on overclocking both the board´s ability can still be measured.
And several Gigabyte employees including me are certain that updates,modifications and revisions can aid and actual overclock in being achieved but not decide its effectivness.

4.)
All in all both boards are great for overclocking.
Gigabyte has always had a reputation of providing boards with special overclocking abilities.

And you shouldn´t rely on the results of the extreme enthusiasts.
Some people don´t need to go extreme and still achieve what the rest does;)

Xibit A here (and working this timexD)

screen.jpg.png

I personally have never seen anyone run a 4.1 GHZ i7 950 at 1.21Vcore stable with such good bench results.
It is also stable at 1.18 but I like to keep it a little up for fluctuation reasons.
My max Cinebench 11.5 result with these clocks is 7.21 - 7.15 so quite good:)
I personally don´t care about the max overclock I prefer to test every clock and voltage first to achieve a perfectly balanced , stable and durable overclock.
So I care far more about the quality of the OC than the quantity:)
That is also a factor why the OC isn´t the right fit for me because I have no interest in stressing my CPU to the absolute limit to be able to see a 4 MHZ difference anyway.
It is all a matter of principal and perception:)
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post #96 of 135
dude i am just going to say 1 thing, maybe it will set things in perspective for you.

Motherboard VRMs are the most complex thing to try and explain.

If i gave you a CPu POT and some dry ice or LN2, you would take back most of what you just said.

boards don't come under scrutiny until they are taken subzero, before you do that you just stay with the UD7.
BTW that quoted price in that video bassplayer, idk how much that accounts to in USD, but that sounds about correct.
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post #97 of 135
Pretty much every X58 board is the same until you take it sub zero.

Sidegrading from the UD5 to the UD7 is useless.
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post #98 of 135
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx;13386954 
Pretty much every X58 board is the same until you take it sub zero.

That is the bottom line in my oppinion.


Since I don´t use liquid Nitro but the Koolance 370 which comes pretty close to that haha wink.gif I will accept this statement as finalization.

But in terms of the comparison ...since the amount of people who actually use Nitro and are members of the extreme community is really low I think the UD7 is of more relevance considering the people´s requirements.

Also look at my bench results and my overclock I am living disproval of your theories:)
Edited by Kung Pow - 5/4/11 at 10:26pm
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post #99 of 135
Disproval of my theories? Which theories might these be?
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post #100 of 135
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx;13387445 
Disproval of my theories? Which theories might these be?

Sry should have requoted again.
But I liked your scentence which is why I used it as bottom line!
Not yours:)
Sinny´s^^
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