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[PCMAG]3D Transistors? We Don't Need 'Em, AMD's Foundry Says - Page 7

post #61 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Intel stated that TriGates manufacturing cost are 2-3% more while providing 37% more performance and 50% less power in active state.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4313/i...ing-in-2h-2011

R&D isn't cheap but everyone is spending the money on it. How do you think more important breakthroughs occur? ...by R&D money and time. Non-planar silicon has been an idea for decades now.
I never questioned the importance of R&D or misunderstood how breakthroughs were made.

Where do you think that Intel is going to pass the cost of that R&D to? They certainly aren't going to eat it.

I read the whole article and of course, a 22nm chip should have better performance and use less power than the 32nm chips they compared it to in every graph.

I will admit that it sounds nice right now, but I'll still wait for real world performance, just the same as I have made no firm commitment to Bulldozer.

Sounding nice and being nice are 2 different things.
post #62 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Smooth View Post
Where do you think that Intel is going to pass the cost of that R&D to? They certainly aren't going to eat it.
That is sunk cost. Intel already passed that cost to consumers. How can I say that? Because the primary part of the R&D is done and it is now production ready. (In reality, it is not quite that simple... you budget projects over the years and there are economic cost considerations.)

If you buy an AMD CPU right now, some of that cost is going into R&D for non-planar fabrication. If you don't like to support non-planar silicon, then don't buy AMD! They are spending your money on it right now!!!1!
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/6/11 at 1:55pm
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post #63 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
That is sunk cost. Intel already passed that cost to consumers. How can I say that? Because the primary part of the R&D is done and it is now production ready. (In reality, it is not quite that simple... you budget projects over the years and there are economic cost considerations.)

If you buy an AMD CPU right now, some of that cost is going into R&D for non-planar fabrication. If you don't like to support non-planar silicon, then don't buy AMD! They are spending your money on it right now!!!1!
Ok, serious question here because I really don't understand. Why is AMD's money going in to R&D for silicon when they don't have a foundry anymore?

Shouldn't Globalfoundries and whatever other foundries are out there be eating the cost of R&D for that?

And, if that's the case, what exactly is AMD spending money on?
post #64 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueg50 View Post
Transistor density doesn't matter in the least bit in these regards. Read the article, this is not about transistor density, it has to do with transistor efficiencies.

With Bulldozer supposedly coming out in 2Q 2011, and 3D transistor Ivy Bridge chips coming out 2H 2011, things are going to get very interesting, especially now that Intel has another big technology lead (22nm and 3D transistors)
Please reread my post, because the lack of reading comprehension in your reply is staggering. My post was a response to people touting 3d transistor technology as the stake in AMD's heart, but it's clearly not the case if you reread my post. Seriously, reread my post.
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post #65 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Smooth View Post
Ok, serious question here because I really don't understand. Why is AMD's money going in to R&D for silicon when they don't have a foundry anymore?

Shouldn't Globalfoundries and whatever other foundries are out there be eating the cost of R&D for that?

And, if that's the case, what exactly is AMD spending money on?

AMD pays GlobalFoundries for fabbing their CPUs. GlobalFoundries then uses some of this payment for R&D. Therefore, AMD CPUs are paying for fabrication R&D.

AMD is spending money on R&D of chip designs, logistics, management, human resources, buildings, etc.
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post #66 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
AMD pays GlobalFoundries for fabbing their CPUs. GlobalFoundries then uses some of this payment for R&D. Therefore, AMD CPUs are paying for fabrication R&D.

AMD is spending money on R&D of chip designs, logistics, management, human resources, buildings, etc.
So AMD comes up with the ideas behind the chips and then has Globalfoundries make them for them?
post #67 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
AMD pays GlobalFoundries for fabbing their CPUs. GlobalFoundries then uses some of this payment for R&D. Therefore, AMD CPUs are paying for fabrication R&D.

AMD is spending money on R&D of chip designs, logistics, management, human resources, buildings, etc.
AMD and Intel may have slightly different ways of reaching the same goal, but yes you're totally right. Anyone that doesn't consider AMD/Global Foundries as one entity when purchasing their product is insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Smooth View Post
So AMD comes up with the ideas behind the chips and then has Globalfoundries make them for them?
Precisely that.
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post #68 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Smooth View Post
So AMD comes up with the ideas behind the chips and then has Globalfoundries make them for them?
No. It is no secret that IBM and AMD have been working on 3D transistors for years now. When GF spun off, they took this research with them.

Here is how fabless chip companies work....
The company designs the logic, architecture, configuration, etc of a chip that wish to produce. During this time, they have a general idea of what fabs are capable of. Later in the design part, they work with fab engineers to make it a reality.

The fab itself is continually researching to improve yields while researching to transistion to smaller processes and new technology/materials.

i.e. TSMC told ATI and NVIDIA that they would have 40nm process ready in 2009. With that in mind, both companies designed their chips in 2007-2009 tweaking it for 40nm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Virid View Post
Anyone that doesn't consider AMD/Global Foundries as one entity when purchasing their product is insane.
Well.... AMD uses TSMC for their GPU fabbing.
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/6/11 at 2:22pm
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post #69 of 97
Interesting stuff, so what would stop AMD from being able to utilize this technology today? Other than the fact that they apparently have no interest in it right now.

And since they are showing no interest in it right now, couldn't they possibly have something better up their sleeve?
post #70 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn_Smooth View Post
Interesting stuff, so what would stop AMD from being able to utilize this technology today? Other than the fact that they apparently have no interest in it right now.

And since they are showing no interest in it right now, couldn't they possibly have something better up their sleeve?
R & D for one... Intel has been talking about these 3D transistors since 2002.

They are showing no interest, simply because they don't have the technology ready, and say they don't need it. Just look at how long it has taken Bulldozer to hit the market.

They are behind Intel, simple as that. It'll likely be at least 2 - 3 years before they start using these 3D transistors, while Intel will have further matured the process.
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