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[AB] Some black holes may be older than time - Page 8

post #71 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
That would assume the universe is uniform... and it is not.
Yup, we have already found evidence that might suggest physics isn't applied equally. Not to mention that large bodies tend to warp physics.

Either way, there is more evidence to support the big bang than the theory of creation. Considering there isn't a single book written for any religion that was well enough documented. Not to mention there is more proof that religious textbooks were simply made up stories and lore.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0401torah.asp

I'm not going to get into beliefs but the mere facts; The oldest mono-theistic religion was based off false scripture/writings.
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post #72 of 132
^ We found the centre of our galaxy through math and logic, cracking the universe is only a matter of time. Not that it really matters but its nice to have an idea where we came from. Theres plenty of evidence which is why so many papers and books are wrote all backed up by known evidence. We are educated enough now to make these kinds of hypotheisis, were not cavemen anymore, or 5 years old.
    
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post #73 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmage View Post
How can they hypothesize that those "Primordial black holes" could be from another universe if they don't even know if the primordial black holes exist in the first place? *** moment...
Read the paper.

How did Dmitri Mendeleev predict elements for the periodic table in 1869? The last element he predicted was discovered 70 years later.

How did Einstein predict the geodetic effect and frame-dragging? It was verified only last week: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...avity-probe-b/


Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Yup, we have already found evidence that might suggest physics isn't applied equally. Not to mention that large bodies tend to warp physics.
In addition, we don't quite understand what is "dark matter" or "dark energy".
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/11/11 at 11:25am
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post #74 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
How did Einstein predict the geodetic effect and frame-dragging? It was verified only last week: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...avity-probe-b/


In addition, we don't quite understand what is "dark matter" or "dark energy".
Taking this further, in many cases we can only use math and indirect observation to formulate conclusions and to provide proof of concept. It's not like we can say, oh hey, lets fly into a black hole tomorrow and see what happens. We are a speck in the universe, and current technology allows us to travel an inch within a vast ocean.
post #75 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
Is it wrong that I thought nothing about space or science when I hear this sentence?
Right there with ya...
     
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post #76 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
In addition, we don't quite understand what is "dark matter" or "dark energy".
So far, we know dark energy is the force that is expanding the universe's space time grid that only applies over great distances. It's the "nothing".

Dark matter is a type of matter that doesn't interact with photons(invisible) but has a ton of mass that generates gravity that helps keep the speed of rotation around the galactic center at a constant speed all the way out to the tip of the outer arms in Galaxies. Hopefully it's a particle that can be found at CERN.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james_ant View Post
Or maybe black holes are merely unrealized realities.

Still I find it hard to understand why scientists still peruse the "big bang" theory when there is so much evidence against it. Such as if the big bang propagated from a single point then we should be able to calculate a direction as to where that point is going off of the movement of the solar bodies. In reality though solar bodies do not move in a uniform direction away from a single point.
What evidence are you referring to that disproves the big bang? The reason we can't locate the "center" of where our universe exploded from is because no where is the center. Every object is moving away from each other over great distances. We are also limited to observing through the visible universe. The objects we see 13.7 billion light years away from us aren't in that position any more. It just took 13.7 billion light years for those photons to reach us. Beyond that, the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light(caused by dark energy) so those photons will never be able to reach us. We'll never be able to see beyond that horizon with light. You're also assuming that the big bang was like a traditional explosion; but in fact it's not matter that is exploding into space but space time itself expanding evenly. That is why we see the cosmic microwave background radiation uniformly from every direction.

I suggest you watch:
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 5/11/11 at 2:40pm
post #77 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
So far, we know dark energy is the force that is expanding the universe's space time grid that only applies over great distances. It's the "nothing". A boiling brew of particles popping in and out of existence in interstellar space.

Dark matter is a type of matter that doesn't interact with photons(invisible) but has a ton of mass that generates gravity mostly around galaxies. Hopefully it's a particle that can be found at CERN.
We don't know.

There are a few hypothesis of what dark energy is.... and some explanations result in dark energy not existing at all.

Dark matter does not interact with the electromagnetic spectrum in meaningful enough amounts for us to currently detect. However, there again is still some dissent voices that say it might not exist at all either.
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post #78 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
We don't know.

There are a few hypothesis of what dark energy is.... and some explanations result in dark energy not existing at all.
What hypotheses are those? I've never heard of any claiming dark energy doesn't exist at all. We don't fully understand what dark energy or matter is yet we do have descriptions of what we understand so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Dark matter does not interact with the electromagnetic spectrum in meaningful enough amounts for us to currently detect. However, there again is still some dissent voices that say it might not exist at all either.
We can quite easily detect dark matter... We can infer its existence due to its gravitational effects on other objects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
That would assume the universe is uniform... and it is not.
As far as we know, the universe IS uniform. It's homogenous and isotropic. There is no special place in the universe that has been observed.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 5/11/11 at 2:41pm
post #79 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
What hypotheses are those? I've never heard of any claiming dark energy doesn't exist at all. We don't fully understand what dark energy or matter is yet we do have descriptions of what we understand so far.


We can quite easily detect dark matter... We can infer its existence due to its gravitational effects on other objects.


As far as we know, the universe IS uniform. It's homogenous and isotropic. There is no special place in the universe that has been observed.
1) Dark Matter's existence is a hypothesis, we can't change that until we fully define it. Just like the "laws" of physics, which were found theorized to not apply equally everywhere.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0909004112.htm

2) We can infer it's existence but we don't know if it's JUST dark matter and not another form along with it. Until we can define and understand dark matter to the fullest we can only infer that what is going on is a reaction caused by what we believe to be dark matter.

3) As far as we know the space around us has laws that apply universally, which is a small portion of reality.
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post #80 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
Are they insinuating that the Big Bang was a white hole from another Universe's black hole?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srsdude View Post
title isn't accurate
in case there was a previous universe, then the black hole would be older than OUR universe NOT time, because time would have existed already...
Depends on if the same time from a "prior" universe is the time that's around now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poisoner View Post
Science will always follow the money.
Then why isn't science Catholic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airdraft View Post
This. The expansion of the universe is only increasing at an exponential rate thus ruling out the possibility for a big crunch. While it is an interesting idea, all evidence points to the universe expanding indefinitely until all bonds are broken thus ruling out this possibility
Until all bonds are broken? What does that even mean.

If the universe is expanding at an increasing rate, as current measurements suggest, that doesn't mean that object currently bound to each other by gravity will fly apart. There will still be large collections of matter, and some of these collections may very well close in on each other and merge. It's just that more distant objects will keep moving away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t00sl0w View Post
arent they all older than time seeing as how "time" is a man made measurement of the degradation of a system?
Time isn't man made.

We may have invented a method to count it, but time exists without us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusky1 View Post
Like another poster said earlier, it can't be "older" than time simply because time doesn't have a beginning or an end. If this hypothesis is true then it only expands the boundaries of the universe's/universes' timeline.
Time may very well have had a beginning, and may well have an end. It's a property of our universe, and like other natural laws may have been different or non-existent at some point. Hard to test such things though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james_ant View Post
Or maybe black holes are merely unrealized realities.

Still I find it hard to understand why scientists still peruse the "big bang" theory when there is so much evidence against it. Such as if the big bang propagated from a single point then we should be able to calculate a direction as to where that point is going off of the movement of the solar bodies. In reality though solar bodies do not move in a uniform direction away from a single point.
Your statement is completely countered by the existence of gravity. With even the barest non-uniformity at all, we get what we see now.
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