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[AB] Some black holes may be older than time - Page 9

post #81 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy;13470532 
1) Dark Matter's existence is a hypothesis, we can't change that until we fully define it. Just like the "laws" of physics, which were found theorized to not apply equally everywhere.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100909004112.htm

2) We can infer it's existence but we don't know if it's JUST dark matter and not another form along with it. Until we can define and understand dark matter to the fullest we can only infer that what is going on is a reaction caused by what we believe to be dark matter.

3) As far as we know the space around us has laws that apply universally, which is a small portion of reality.

Are you just arguing to argue or what? Everyone knows they're just hypotheses.

He was saying that we don't know anything about dark matter or energy. We actually know quite a bit. Whether what we are observing is actually what is going on is something to be debated on among physicists. You're assuming that the word "dark matter" defines a specific object. Dark matter is just a placeholder for what we are observing. Whether it's one of two events that are creating the phenomenon doesn't mean the term dark matter doesn't hold true. The same holds true for dark energy. Further discovery of what is causing these effects will only help define those terms further.

Arguing against the homogenous and isotropic theory without any evidence against it is rather senseless. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 5/12/11 at 2:56am
post #82 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;13469304 
What hypotheses are those? I've never heard of any claiming dark energy doesn't exist at all. We don't fully understand what dark energy or matter is yet we do have descriptions of what we understand so far.

http://www.space.com/8588-dark-energy-dark-matter-exist-scientists-allege.html
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/24139
http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/50199-dark-matter-and-dark-energy-may-not-exist-at-all
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;13469304 
We can quite easily detect dark matter... We can infer its existence due to its gravitational effects on other objects.
Please provide a paper that shows the detection of dark matter. What particle(s) is it comprised of?

Inferring does not equate to detection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;13469304 
As far as we know, the universe IS uniform. It's homogenous and isotropic. There is no special place in the universe that has been observed.

That would be homogenous and isotropic in properties. This not mean the universe is homogenous and isotropic in physical structure nor composition.
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post #83 of 132
Knock knock knock, Penny. Knock knock knock, Penny. Knock knock knock, Penny. Knock knock knock, Penny. Knock knock knock, Penny. Knock knock knock, Penny.
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post #84 of 132
Dark matter is just a Microsoft subsidiary acquiring big things around it and making them vanish forever. lachen.gif
 
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post #85 of 132
about the black holes from before our universe began thing, I watched something recently which shows the blast ripple can be seen from the creation of our universe, but I believe that is also went on to say that there are other, more faint ripples visible, indicating that there have been other big bangs before the one that created our universe as we know it. Or perhaps there was more than one big bang wink.gif
    
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post #86 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon;13402664 
Is it wrong that I thought nothing about space or science when I hear this sentence?

Hahahaha man how I hate that rule 'no rep for funny posts', I would be farming that button right now laugher.gif

Welcome to my sig xD
post #87 of 132
Did you read the articles you linked to? They even explained how the two scientists' ideas aren't as correct as they think.
Quote:
"These are weak sources, so many of them must be averaged together to obtain useful measurements. None of them move with respect to the CMB," said WMAP team member Mark Halpern of the University of British Columbia. "This method is inferior to our main approach."

Plus, Halpern said he and his colleagues had identified an error the other team made in failing to account for the confusing contribution of the CMB ripples themselves.

"We can obtain the Shanks result by omitting the step that properly accounts for the background confusion, but this step is necessary," Bennett explained.

I can link to a bunch of people who disagree with evolution as well, but that doesn't mean they're any more credible than the scientifically accepted fact of evolution. You're linking to a news report that describes an idea that two scientists have put forth but hasn't been peer reviewed and accepted yet(simply submitting an article isn't enough). Anyone can come up with a hypothesis but that doesn't mean you should take that idea as fact yet. If you had linked to a peer reviewed article that has undergone scrutiny and still held up, that would be a different thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;13475551 
Please provide a paper that shows the detection of dark matter. What particle(s) is it comprised of?

Inferring does not equate to detection.
Not only is the detection of dark matter through its gravitational effects on other objects one way in which dark matter is explained(look up "detection" in the dictionary), it is also explained by the mass needed to hold galaxies together(as the first article you linked to explained to you if you had read it).

Your argument against dark matter is like calling a UFO an alien spaceship; but the very definition of UFO implies that it must be unidentified. Saying that our current understanding of what is responsible for the effects of dark matter may not be complete yet, doesn't mean that the term, "dark matter" is incorrect. We don't know the particle responsible for gravity either but that doesn't mean that we can't "detect" gravity or its effects on other objects. We can infer the particle responsible through mathematics, but it hasn't been confirmed yet either. We're hoping to find these sub-atomic particles in the LHC at CERN.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;13475551 
That would be homogenous and isotropic in properties. This not mean the universe is homogenous and isotropic in physical structure nor composition.
That is in fact untrue. The spatial distribution of galaxies and redshift of distant galaxies is equal to all observers. There is no special physical structure of the universe.

Why are you commenting on cosmology?
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 5/12/11 at 5:29am
post #88 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;13476049 
Did you read the articles you linked to? They even explained how the two scientists' ideas aren't as correct as they think.


I can link to a bunch of people who disagree with evolution as well, but that doesn't mean they're any more credible than the scientifically accepted fact of evolution. You're linking to a news report that describes an idea that two scientists have put forth but hasn't been peer reviewed and accepted yet(simply submitting an article isn't enough). Anyone can come up with a hypothesis but that doesn't mean you should take that idea as fact yet. If you had linked to a peer reviewed article that has undergone scrutiny and still held up, that would be a different thing.
Evolution is not a fact. It is a well-developed scientific theory. Look up the scientific definition of fact and theory.

Dark matter and dark energy do have evidence and is currently the strongest theory. However, there ARE other possible explainations such as modified gravity laws (as mentioned in the articles) or quantum gravity.

There are links to peer reviewed papers here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter#Alternative_theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;13476049 
Not only is the detection of dark matter through its gravitational effects on other objects one way in which dark matter is explained(look up "detection" in the dictionary), it is also explained by the mass needed to hold galaxies together(as the first article you linked to explained to you if you had read it)..

Your argument against dark matter is like calling a UFO an alien spaceship; but the very definition of UFO implies that it must be unidentified. Saying that our current understanding of what is responsible for the effects of dark matter may not be complete yet, doesn't mean that the term, "dark matter" is incorrect. We don't know the particle responsible for gravity either but that doesn't mean that we can't "detect" gravity or its effects on other objects. We're hoping to find these sub-atomic particles in the LHC at CERN.
My point is that a particle may not exist at all if our current understanding of large-scale gravity is incomplete.


My arguement is that there might not have been an UFO or alien spaceship at all. It might have been just reflected lights in the fog.

We can detect the properties of gravity but we still are not sure if the Higgs Boson exists. If it turns out that it probably does NOT exist, then our understanding of physics is incomplete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;13476049 
That is in fact untrue. The spatial distribution of galaxies and redshift of distant galaxies is equal to all observers. There is no special physical structure of the universe.

Why are you commenting on cosmology?
Is the velocity and trajectory of every single galaxy away from a central point?
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/12/11 at 5:44am
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post #89 of 132
Wow that's got to be about one of the only things to get done @ Dal U other than partying
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post #90 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;13476157 
Evolution is not a fact. It is a well-developed scientific theory. Look up the scientific definition of fact and theory.

doh.gif Scientific theory is the same as scientific fact. A theory is the highest form of evidence. You're confusing the layman term of theory with the scientific term of a theory. Are you one of those, "Gravity is just a theory" people?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;13476157 
Dark matter and dark energy do have evidence and is currently the strongest theory. However, there ARE other possible explainations such as modified gravity laws (as mentioned in the articles) or quantum gravity.

There are links to peer reviewed papers here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter#Alternative_theories



My point is that a particle may not exist at all if our current understanding of large-scale gravity is incomplete.


My arguement is that there might not have been an UFO or alien spaceship at all. It might have been just reflected lights in the fog.

We can detect the properties of gravity but we still are not sure if the Higgs Boson exists. If it turns out that it probably does NOT exist, then our understanding of physics is incomplete.

That's correct, maybe the Higgs boson doesn't exist. Until someone comes up with a way to prove otherwise, it's the most accurate description of what's going on for now. I got the impression from you earlier that you were saying that dark matter hasn't been detected observationally or predicted in mathematics, which of course it has. I'm glad you read some of the evidence to support it.

Our understanding of physics will always be incomplete. smile.gif That's one of the beauties of science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo;13476157 
Is the velocity and trajectory of every single galaxy away from a central point?
No. That's exactly what I was trying to explain to the person I quoted. There is no central point from which the universe expanded from. Every galaxy is moving away from every other galaxy. If you were transported 12 billion light years away and looked up in the sky, you would see the same effect of every galaxy moving away from each other as we see from Earth. Space itself in infinite. We keep trying to place 3 dimensional terms on the space-time grid because that's what we as humans can easily relate to but that's not how the universe's structure actually is. That's why we can see the afterglow(background radiation) of the big bang uniformly in every direction.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 5/12/11 at 6:17am
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