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[ZDNET] Why Intel's 22nm technology really matters - Page 17

post #161 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyy;13460574 
Are you really questioning if 22nm will be a good change? We have seen improvements with every single die shrink ever, do you expect that to change?

I think he is talking about the 3D aspect of the issue, not the die shrink. Of course, going to 22nm is a step forward, but JCP does have a valid point that until we see 3rd party benchmarks, it is all vaporware, just like all the rumors and speculation about BD.
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post #162 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono;13460771 
I think he is talking about the 3D aspect of the issue, not the die shrink. Of course, going to 22nm is a step forward, but JCP does have a valid point that until we see 3rd party benchmarks, it is all vaporware, just like all the rumors and speculation about BD.

True enough, the way he worded it made it seem like he was talking about both changes though. That being said even if it doesn't improve anything more then low voltage situations(which it undoubtedly will help, maybe not the 30%+ numbers intel is claiming but there will be some improvement.) It is also supposedly is going to allow intel to get a little further passed the previously believed 16nm wall that many believed regular transistors wouldn't be able to pass because of quantum tunneling. Granted there have been so many walls that people didn't believe we would be able to pass so take that claim with a grain of salt.
Edited by scyy - 5/10/11 at 9:02pm
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post #163 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono;13460771 
I think he is talking about the 3D aspect of the issue, not the die shrink. Of course, going to 22nm is a step forward, but JCP does have a valid point that until we see 3rd party benchmarks, it is all vaporware, just like all the rumors and speculation about BD.


^ Precisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scyy;13461253 
True enough, the way he worded it made it seem like he was talking about both changes though. That being said even if it doesn't improve anything more then low voltage situations(which it undoubtedly will help, maybe not the 30%+ numbers intel is claiming but there will be some improvement.) It is also supposedly is going to allow intel to get a little further passed the previously believed 16nm wall that many believed regular transistors wouldn't be able to pass because of quantum tunneling. Granted there have been so many walls that people didn't believe we would be able to pass so take that claim with a grain of salt.

22nm will be better than 32nm. 3D transistors will be better than current fab techniques. Tomorrow's tech is nearly always better than todays -- that is obvious and well known by everybody here. I agree IB will be better than SB.

But look at that slide...

- 37% performance increase
- more than 50% power reduction
- all for 2%-3% (i.e no) cost increase

get 'em while they're hot people! rolleyes.gif

Intel's slide makes the 3D transistors seem like the second coming and people in this thread (from both sides) reacted as such. My point was... before I am going to believe that 3D transistors are the greatest voltage/heat reduction invention ever, I want to see non-biased benches (and yes, Intel is bias towards Intel products) comparing relevant quantities to Sandy.

If this slide has convinced you that IB won't just be a little better but will crush SB then you must also believe that AMD propaganda where they show that Llano is faster than Sandy, right eek.gif

http://blogs.amd.com/fusion/2011/03/01/exposing-the-phantom-x86-bottleneck/
Edited by JCPUser - 5/10/11 at 9:15pm
post #164 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyy;13461253 
True enough, the way he worded it made it seem like he was talking about both changes though. That being said even if it doesn't improve anything more then low voltage situations(which it undoubtedly will help, maybe not the 30%+ numbers intel is claiming but there will be some improvement.) It is also supposedly is going to allow intel to get a little further passed the previously believed 16nm wall that many believed regular transistors wouldn't be able to pass because of quantum tunneling. Granted there have been so many walls that people didn't believe we would be able to pass so take that claim with a grain of salt.

Intel is already investing $5 Billiion into 14nm fabs
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380625,00.asp
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post #165 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig;13461451 
Intel is already investing $5 Billiion into 14nm fabs
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380625,00.asp

At what size range does the lithography process become too difficult/impossible to manufacture? I'm prolly wrong (need to look it up) but I thought it was around the 11-08nm range? Moore's law can be pushed only so far.
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post #166 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono;13460771 
I think he is talking about the 3D aspect of the issue, not the die shrink. Of course, going to 22nm is a step forward, but JCP does have a valid point that until we see 3rd party benchmarks, it is all vaporware, just like all the rumors and speculation about BD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCPUser;13461340 
^ Precisely.




22nm will be better than 32nm. 3D transistors will be better than current fab techniques. Tomorrow's tech is nearly always better than todays -- that is obvious and well known by everybody here. I agree IB will be better than SB.

But look at that slide...

- 37% performance increase
- more than 50% power reduction
- all for 2%-3% (i.e no) cost increase

get 'em while they're hot people! rolleyes.gif

Intel's slide makes the 3D transistors seem like the second coming and people in this thread (from both sides) reacted as such. My point was... before I am going to believe that 3D transistors are the greatest voltage/heat reduction invention ever, I want to see non-biased benches (and yes, Intel is bias towards Intel products) comparing relevant quantities to Sandy.

If this slide has convinced you that IB won't just be a little better but will crush SB then you must also believe that AMD propaganda where they show that Llano is faster than Sandy, right eek.gif

http://blogs.amd.com/fusion/2011/03/01/exposing-the-phantom-x86-bottleneck/

We don't need to wait for benchmarks as the entire industry agrees that 3D Transistors are the way forward. AMD were the first company to ready multi-gate transistors 8 years ago.

Sounds more like you're being very sore instead of excited for the progression of technology thumb.gif
    
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post #167 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian;13464700 
We don't need to wait for benchmarks as the entire industry agrees that 3D Transistors are the way forward. AMD were the first company to ready multi-gate transistors 8 years ago.

Sounds more like you're being very sore instead of excited for the progression of technology thumb.gif

Benchmarks for Intel's CLAIMS of 37% performance increase, no body here was saying that 3D was not a step forward. I'm excited for this step forward in technology, just I and others don't trust the numbers that Intel is putting out there, and the people who are running with that information going gaga over it. rolleyes.gif
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post #168 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiivari;13416147 
You gotta remember, Intel ahs to pay a 64-bit license for every single processor they sell smile.gif

Ahem..you mean "We" have to pay...
post #169 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoxt;13464867 
Ahem..you mean "We" have to pay...

No, only you guys that buy Intel.....tongue.gif
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post #170 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig;13461451 
Intel is already investing $5 Billiion into 14nm fabs
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380625,00.asp

Yup and 10nm by 2015 assuming intels tick tock stays on course.
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