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[ZDNET] Why Intel's 22nm technology really matters - Page 3

post #21 of 192
Thread Starter 
Whoa U Mad bro?

Yes Intel has had to pay for their shoddy business practices.

Yes AMD was 1st to do all those things mentioned.

However, do you remember how much the FX series processors were back in 2006?

Since Intel introduced more competitive products AMD could no longer charge $1000 for processors!

And let me point out one simple fact, if it wasn't for Intel's superior products in the past 5 years, AMD processors wouldn't be so cheap. AMD fan base has Intel to thank for that! Heck AMD is still releasing processors that were made in 2008 and calling them new.

All AMD has done is rehash the same old architecture over and over again for almost a decade.
Edited by 2010rig - 5/7/11 at 7:51am
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post #22 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Whoa U Mad bro?

Yes Intel has had to pay for their shoddy business practices.

Yes AMD was 1st to do all those things mentioned.

However, do you remember how much the FX series processors were back in 2006?

Since Intel introduced more competitive products AMD could no longer charge $1000 for processors!

And let me point out one simple fact, if it wasn't for Intel's superior products in the past 5 years, AMD processors wouldn't be so cheap. AMD fan base has Intel to thank for that! Heck AMD is still releasing processors that were made in 2008 and calling them new.

All AMD has done is rehash the same old architecture over and over again for almost a decade.
Yes AMD's FX CPU's were $1000, but so were Intel's EE and yet AMD's were leagues better, so they could sit at that point. When AMD's products were less competitive they didn't "bully" OEM's to only sell their products so they could continue to price them as such. Instead they made their prices more competitive.

AMD may have been re-releasing 2008 CPU's, but again, they are doing so at a reasonable price. Note that because the FTC is all up in Intel's business, Intel has to sell Sandy Bridge at a reasonable price or else they couldn't compete with AMD, so you have it backwards.

Finally, yes, I am mad because you can't blame AMD for not having the funds that they should rightfully have to put into R&D that Intel, by all rights, should not have. Intel made shoddy processors and yet they were rewarded for doing so. AMD made superior products and yet got nothing out of it. What a world we live in.
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post #23 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post

And don't feed us that better product garbage. As consumers you should be angered with Intel for developing the **** that it had been developing when they've recently proved that they were more than capable of producing competitive products. They chose to instead produce garbage that AMD walked all over.
actually "recently" Intel is releasing very good products at a good price point.For example I just don't see how AMD just walked over the core 2 and the core i 1st and 2nd series.

In the end it doesn't really matter who is first to do something. What matters is a well performing product ready for customer use.
 
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post #24 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post
actually "recently" Intel is releasing very good products at a good price point.For example I just don't see how AMD just walked over the core 2 and the core i 1st and 2nd series.

In the end it doesn't really matter who is first to do something. What matters is a well performing product ready for customer use.
That was the turning point because Intel was rewarded for doing illegal practices when their monopoly was threatened. AMD can't put money into R&D if it doesn't have it. The problem I have is that it should have it because Intel never should have received as much money from sales that it did from the Pentium II through D, but again, it's illegal business practices got it that money.

And yes, I'd four and a half years is still recent considering AMD had the market for seven and a half.
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post #25 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheetos316 View Post
True, but what happens when ARM finally gets fabbed on tri-gate?
AMD will too. And so will IBM. And Sammy. And Qualcomm. They share foundries, remember?


And then, Intel will be against IBM+AMD's RD working together on new products.


And then, market will level again.


@dodger.blue: Don't bother. You know what Intel did, I know what Intel did. Almost everyone purchasing AMD does. Most Intel buyers will deny that or say it wasn't that much, hurts their epeens.

Now they are stronger because they gained a ****load of money. But time settles everyone on their place, and AMD is kicking Intel hard in the butt with servers. And that's a market Intel doesn't want to lose.

HP going AMD on highend servers, IBM aswell, so is Sun, and so is Dell.


Back on topic: It will make everyone hurry the hell up on their R&D. Good for the market.
Edited by Artikbot - 5/7/11 at 8:07am
   
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post #26 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post
Yes AMD's FX CPU's were $1000, but so were Intel's EE and yet AMD's were leagues better, so they could sit at that point. When AMD's products were less competitive they didn't "bully" OEM's to only sell their products so they could continue to price them as such. Instead they made their prices more competitive.

AMD may have been re-releasing 2008 CPU's, but again, they are doing so at a reasonable price. Note that because the FTC is all up in Intel's business, Intel has to sell Sandy Bridge at a reasonable price or else they couldn't compete with AMD, so you have it backwards.

Finally, yes, I am mad because you can't blame AMD for not having the funds that they should rightfully have to put into R&D that Intel, by all rights, should not have. Intel made shoddy processors and yet they were rewarded for doing so. AMD made superior products and yet got nothing out of it. What a world we live in.
The fact they are releasing 2008 products at a reasonable price is due to the performance said products deliver. When they can't even come close to matching the 2500K in performance, they have no choice but to price them so cheap.

You really think Intel released SB to compete with AMD's low prices? And you're telling me I have it backwards?

It's more like they did it as a pre-emptive strike to BD, which is forcing AMD to really deliver this time around.

Also, all your arguments are based on PAST practices at Intel, are they still doing those things? Or do they have 80% desktop marketshare by providing superior products?

I'm glad Intel was forced to pay for and eliminate their shoddy business practices, as it forced them to put out superior products. I'm personally glad that AMD is finally bringing something new to the table. It's refreshing as the competition is badly needed. Heck, if BD lives up to the hype, my 2nd rig will be BD based.

I think you need a time machine to bring you back to the present, as you are clearly stuck in the past.
Edited by 2010rig - 5/7/11 at 8:29am
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post #27 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
When they can't even come close to matching the 2500K in performance, they have no choice but to price it as such.
As it would happen with Intel if they had an underperforming CPU.


...wait. No. Intel would keep pricing higher than AMD. The retailers will bash AMD to death even if it performs better. That's what happened with Athlon64 CPUs. Or am I mistaken?


But the thing here is that Intel leads the performance sector, and AMD leads the midrange. Period.


You can say that Intel has the i5 2500k in midrange, but people don't think that a $240 CPU is midrange. midrange for them is around 100-140 bucks as much. And there's no competitive Intel processor there.


Of course we, the enthusiast market focus on the high end instead of the mid range, but we aren't their source of income. Mainstream section is. And that's why AMD has been gaining market share, because they do good mainstream stuff. People don't care if the 2500k performs 190480298439024 times better than the PhII 955. They only know that's twice as expensive and will get the job done. And that's what is in AMD's mind.

The BD-based FX series has been made to regain the enthusiast sector, and because they know that architecture is overkill in server field. And that's where they get their monies, not us, the enthusiasts.


Can't wait for BD, just to see if AMD has done their homework. Intel needs to be kicked in the butt or Ivies will retail at $700 starting price point.
   
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post #28 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post
AMD will too. And so will IBM. And Sammy. And Qualcomm. They share foundries, remember?


And then, Intel will be against IBM+AMD's RD working together on new products.


And then, market will level again.


@dodger.blue: Don't bother. You know what Intel did, I know what Intel did. Almost everyone purchasing AMD does. Most Intel buyers will deny that or say it wasn't that much, hurts their epeens.

Now they are stronger because they gained a ****load of money. But time settles everyone on their place, and AMD is kicking Intel hard in the butt with servers. And that's a market Intel doesn't want to lose.

HP going AMD on highend servers, IBM aswell, so is Sun, and so is Dell.


Back on topic: It will make everyone hurry the hell up on their R&D. Good for the market.
Not all of us Intel users think they can do no wrong.

Currently Intel is still leading in Server market share. They did lose a decent chunk when they dun goofed and came out with Itanium. However, they have regained that market share they lost with Itanium. When Intel starts using 3D transistors in their Xeon line AMD is really going to start losing server market share.
Edited by AtomicFrost - 5/7/11 at 8:32am
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post #29 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

@dodger.blue: Don't bother. You know what Intel did, I know what Intel did. Almost everyone purchasing AMD does. Most Intel buyers will deny that or say it wasn't that much, hurts their epeens.

Now they are stronger because they gained a ****load of money. But time settles everyone on their place, and AMD is kicking Intel hard in the butt with servers. And that's a market Intel doesn't want to lose.
You're absolutely right, but I'm going to give it one more bout just the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
The fact they are releasing 2008 products at a reasonable price is due to the performance said products deliver. When they can't even come close to matching the 2500K in performance, they have no choice but to price it as such.
I'm not disputing that, but you're example furthers my point that AMD is a better corporation than Intel. When their products cannot compete, they price them better.

When Intel's products cannot compete, they bully OEM's into buying them just the same and they still don't alter the prices. In fact they threaten to raise their prices (what?).

By the way, the FTC's suit against Intel is not just on behalf AMD, it's also on behalf of AMD (formerly ATI), Nvidia, and VIA.


Well, I've had my day in court, so I'm going to take Artikbot's advice not bother any further.
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post #30 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post
Nothing illegal? Are you kidding me?

*cough* http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33882559

*cough* http://www.antitrustlawyerblog.com/2...ues_intel.html

There's your precious overlord in action. By the way AMD deserved more than the 1.25 Billion USD they settled for, but they couldn't afford to put up a long trial. I remember reading about the Federal Trade Commission turning around and suing Intel the moment AMD settled. It was music to my ears.

And don't feed us that better product garbage. As consumers you should be angered with Intel for developing the **** that it had been developing when they've recently proved that they were more than capable of producing competitive products. They chose to instead produce garbage that AMD walked all over.

Ever since the Kryptonite-II was released in 1998 AMD was better in every way and at a more reasonable price. AMD beat Intel to the 1.0GHz barrier and when Intel caught up, AMD's product was still better. AMD was the first to bring 64-bit processing to desktops. AMD was the first to abandon the FSB and was the first to utilize an integrated memory controller. When Intel caught wind of AMD's revolutionary Dual-Core processor, they rushed together a shoddy Pentium-D that was just two single cores communicating through the FSB so they could release it first. They only released it four days before AMD and AMD stomped it to the ground at, again, a much more reasonable price.

You can chalk it up to fanboyism, but Intel is one of the most disgusting corporations that I can think of. The only ones worse--off the top of my head--being insurance companies and banks. As for AMD? Well, I'm not so naive to think that any corporation is the consumers friend, but since VIA was snuffed out, they aren't going to offer much competition to Intel and AMD just happens to exceed my needs at a better price.


I'm also not so naive to think that anyone actually reads entire posts, but I just thought I'd just remind people of those "legal" things that Intel has been doing.



Back on topic: AMD and IBM are also developing 3D transistors and since AMD was the first to get to 22nm, I don't think this spells the end for them.
That lawsuit was from around 10 years ago. When Intel were bribing Dell to refuse AMD chips. The practice ended as soon as the lawsuit was filed. It took 10 years to sort out. $1.2 billion was MORE than enough. Sure, it wasn't enough to make a dent in AMD's deficit. But don't try blame Intel because AMD ran up a deficit. Dual Cores and x64 R&D probably wasn't cheap.

AMD were market leaders until Core2. I used AMD, mainly, right up until that point and then I started using Intel and have ever since. I'm not so melodramatic as to refuse to use the market leader because of convoluted "morals" regarding a ten year old lawsuit. Some of us have children that age.

I find your likening of Intel to Insurance Companies and Banks to be absolutely hilarious

Insurance Companies are licensed theft. You are required by law to drive with insurance and therefore pay their premiums, and then they fight you tooth and nail to avoid paying out your claims, and the next year you must pay a premium again, and, if there's been a high volume of claims in your area, your premium goes up, regardless of whether you made a claim.

Banks take your money, use it, spend it and invest it but when it comes to giving you it back, or paying you interest, you get rock bottom rates. Or if you incur a bank charge, it's charged though the roof. They want your money, but they don't want to give you any at all.

Intel are like these two? Sorry, but I buy my CPU from a retailer and I expect and need nothing else of Intel. They bodged the Cougarpoint chipset and set aside a massive amount of money to fix the error, free of charge to the users.

If you don't want to buy Intel, so be it. No-one here should be trying to talk you into it. But I think you should grow up, oh, and you're not alone. There are many AMD fanboys who spout this same rubbish. I used to be a fanboy, but then I realised I was cutting myself off 50% of the market, and, I grew up.
    
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 2500 @ 4,004GHz (1.202v) Asus P8P67-PRO B3 Leadtek GTX260 65nm 896MB 700|1430|1100 4GB DDR3 Muskin 1686MHz 
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