Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [ZDNET] Why Intel's 22nm technology really matters
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[ZDNET] Why Intel's 22nm technology really matters - Page 10

post #91 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAlex View Post
So tell me how do you get ahead without any money . ~80%+ of the market owned by Intel at the time, do you know much money AMD lost out on? Honestly...you think if Intel hadn't done what they did, AMD would be the underdog right now?
Right, because history has taught me that everything is clear cut and black and white

I can say, with 100% certainty, for an actual fact, that what Intel "did" caused AMD to slack behind and release Phenom a year late.

Despite the fact that Phenom dropped in 2007, and Intel, by AMD's very words, stopped their anticompetitive practices in 2006.

Intel didn't have mountains of cash beforehand at all. They stole 100% of their money from AMD. They sent secret ninjas, bathed in Kittens Blood, into the AMD HQ and stole a fat bag of gold that said "AMD's Keep off" on it and returned to to Intel. Who used the bag of gold, and secret winning formula, to create Core2 and utterly whip AMD into complete shock so that it took them a whole year to release Phenom. Meanwhile, at the Legion of Doom (Tom Cruises house) Intel was secretly planning a further attack on AMD. Intel Knew that AMD were planning to hold out against Intel at Thermopylae, chosen because it sounds like Monopoly. Intel sent a horde of a billion lawyers to battle the AMD engineers and in the end, they fell. Intels lawyer army then marched on the AMD capital, in Mecca, slaying all fanboys who tried to cite superfluous and spent legal cases to base a grounding in today. When they arrived at the gates of doom, the AMD chief executive stepped down and quit, in the hopes that Intel may stay their hand and have mercy on the AMD employees. However, the stain of the ten year long legal battle lived on strong in the memories of the Intel lawyers, who thought they were onto a winning case only to be bummed and lose. The lawyers razed the AMD headquarters to the ground, looking for more giant bags of gold and Kittens, only to find the Fusion APU technology. Knowing this would please their Intel Overlords, they left the remaining AMD citizens to their burning rubble and returned home to Santa Clara to create the Sandy Bridge integrated GPU (named after the famous battle between Intel and the Angry Kitten Horde).

The rest, is history....



BTW, this is how you AMD guys sound. Intel stopped in 2006. Sure it was wrong, and Intel have paid TWICE in both the European Court and US courts, and may well end up paying in the Japanese Courts, too. Despite this, AMD bought ATI, seriously overpaid and was late to the market at a crucial moment, they also almost had the administrators in because they were late delivering products, had a massive deficit and had trouble getting investors on board, despite being right on the money over Intel's shoddy and anticompetitive business practice.

The point being, Intel were to blame for the lack of COMMERCIAL success of AMD during 1996-2006 (though Intel claimed they stopped the OEM incentives in 2004) However the act of offering incentives, discounts and trying to get manufacturers to be Intel only isn't a horrendous and disgusting act. Exclusivity rights are bought and sold all the damn time and each time they're a detriment to the consumer. The difference here is that Intel owned a huge market share which worked to their advantage. AMD called foul and the courts agreed, even though Intel still don't agree with it.

Despite this, and I say it again, Intel didn't do much wrong. They sought after exclusive rights from OEM's, which turned out to be very anti-competitive, yet a very sound business move. To try and claim that Intel owe AMD more money is absurd. €2-3bn is a nice little pocket for AMD for their troubles and anything they haven't made since 2006 is their own fault.

This is my last post on the topic because anything after this is just plain fanboy BS (and as I've mentioned earlier, I've owned both AMD and Intel CPU's. I go with whichever is faster and better at the time of purchase. I don't fuss over frivolous court cases and absurd, convoluted, morals over crap that doesn't affect me. Of Intel lied, cheated, and stole their way to being number one, that doesn't matter one iota to me. All I give a damn about is the best for my money.)


EDIT:

Oh, do I think AMD would be the underdog right now? Yeah. As I've said there is absolutely no way in hell anyone can claim AMD would be still top right now if Intel hadn't have slammed their markets. Intel were still developing Core2 at that time, which turned out to be an utter beast. Core2 was still a winner eitherway. It was better than Phenom and was until Phenom II, by which time it was already too late. Maybe AMD shouldn't have bought ATI? Maybe they should have ploughed that money into R&D? Or maybe AMD played it exactly as they needed to. Taking market share back bit by bit? AMD aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They're here to stay and now things are getting back onto a level playing field maybe things will change around. I personally don't give a rats ass eitherway as I'll do my usual and buy the best for my money at the time of purchase. That might be AMD, might be Intel, heck, might even be ARM. The point is, AMD fanboys are as annoying as Intel fanboys. The only decent people are the ones that look at things subjectively and without a smidgeon of bias.
Edited by Viridian - 5/8/11 at 4:44am
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 2500 @ 4,004GHz (1.202v) Asus P8P67-PRO B3 Leadtek GTX260 65nm 896MB 700|1430|1100 4GB DDR3 Muskin 1686MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2xWD CB 250GB, 2x SG 320GB, 1xSS F1 1TB Pioneer DVD-RW Windows 7 Professional 64bit Samsung 2032BW 20" 1680x1050 16:10 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Lycosa CoolerMaster GX 550W Coolermaster Storm Sniper Razer DeathAdder 
Mouse Pad
Razer Goliathus 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 2500 @ 4,004GHz (1.202v) Asus P8P67-PRO B3 Leadtek GTX260 65nm 896MB 700|1430|1100 4GB DDR3 Muskin 1686MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2xWD CB 250GB, 2x SG 320GB, 1xSS F1 1TB Pioneer DVD-RW Windows 7 Professional 64bit Samsung 2032BW 20" 1680x1050 16:10 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Lycosa CoolerMaster GX 550W Coolermaster Storm Sniper Razer DeathAdder 
Mouse Pad
Razer Goliathus 
  hide details  
Reply
post #92 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by the.FBI View Post
Does something illegal or B. Does something that is blatantly anti competitive in nature. Intel has done neither of these things and holds such a large market share purely because they have been making better products than the competition.
laughed at the bolded part. as strat79 pointed out 2 posts from your post, intel HAS done anti competitive things in the past. hence why they paid out how much exactly to AMD? common folks... don't make claims that are the complete opposite of reality...
post #93 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post






Source

NOTE: Can we get back on topic in discussing why Intel's 22nm really matter?
AMD.... you lose. AGAIN!
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
|i7 2600K| |EVGA P67 SLI| |N560GTX-Ti Hawk| Waiting on Sandy Bridge :) 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Waiting on Sandy Bridge :) |Windows 7 Ulitmate 64-Bit| |Hanns-G HZ281HPB 1920x1200| |Silverstone Strider Plus 850W| 
Case
|SilverStone RV03| ETA: 04/05/11 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
|i7 2600K| |EVGA P67 SLI| |N560GTX-Ti Hawk| Waiting on Sandy Bridge :) 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Waiting on Sandy Bridge :) |Windows 7 Ulitmate 64-Bit| |Hanns-G HZ281HPB 1920x1200| |Silverstone Strider Plus 850W| 
Case
|SilverStone RV03| ETA: 04/05/11 
  hide details  
Reply
post #94 of 192
Is it impossible to have a civilized discussion on what either company is doing without it erupting into a argument?

Why do people bring up amd in Intel threads and intel in amd threads? It looks like you all work for these companies or something.
Edited by blaze200 - 5/8/11 at 6:51am
Razgriz
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
1055t @ 3.6ghz Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P HD 4850 512mb 8GB Muskin 1600mhz 
OS
Windows 7 x64 
  hide details  
Reply
Razgriz
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
1055t @ 3.6ghz Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P HD 4850 512mb 8GB Muskin 1600mhz 
OS
Windows 7 x64 
  hide details  
Reply
post #95 of 192
intel now share tech with amd its part of the antitrust law they got screwed over by in the us and eu courts intel will always have the edge for the fact they have there own labs and r&d amd rely on partners i.e ibm,sony,nintendo<< the latter do r&d on there gpus and cpus for use in consoles even microshaft do r&d for amd/ati but they also do it for nvidia and intel...

oh and at a recent tech show intel introduced a Crossfire only propreity motherboard using an intel cpu with ati graphics cards co produced by intel and ati/amd. competition is there but this one off motherboard was made because of the us court ruling of monopoly and anti trust...

nvidia had a simular case with amd as amd wanted all amd motherboards to be ati multi gpu only the ruling was that to keep competitive and not create a monopoly they have to be capable of both.. nvidia got a right royal telling off when a driver update for physx disabled its use if an ati card was detected as the main card which there is still a court case going on about this but as physx is purely nvidia gpu/cuda based nvidia actually have the rights to it... but its a whole other story and 3rd partys soon fixed it regardless..


oh and on topic i cannot wait for 22nm cpus imagine the capabilitys 5ghz with 40c at load on air anyone??
Edited by UkGouki - 5/8/11 at 7:08am
post #96 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
The whole debate is ridiculous and superfluous. Intel are not to blame for all AMD's shortcomings. There has been no corporate espionage, Intel hasn't sabotaged AMD's efforts internally.

I'm not a fanboy. I've mentioned this earlier. Yet I see no reason to continue spouting this trash about illegal practices. It no longer happens. AMD are behind because they are behind. Not because of Intel.
Seriously? So you think Intel is such an innocent company and AMD is just behind because they have no innovations or good R&D? If you think that then I have a bridge to sell you in New York for cheap.
BULLDOZER!!!
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
8120FX Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD7 2ea MSI r9-270x 16gb G-Skill Snipers 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD 3x1tb greens, 1x1tb black Adata S599 120gb LG DVDR/RW, LG Blueray CM V8 Win7 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG2762D Microsoft Antec TPN-750 CM HAF 932 
MouseMouse Pad
Microsoft X5 Generic 
  hide details  
Reply
BULLDOZER!!!
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
8120FX Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD7 2ea MSI r9-270x 16gb G-Skill Snipers 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD 3x1tb greens, 1x1tb black Adata S599 120gb LG DVDR/RW, LG Blueray CM V8 Win7 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG2762D Microsoft Antec TPN-750 CM HAF 932 
MouseMouse Pad
Microsoft X5 Generic 
  hide details  
Reply
post #97 of 192
Great news, hopefully I'll be able to sell my MB/cpu for enough to pay for at least an ivy bridge cpu or MB. Think they'll stick to tri channel ram?
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 4790k 4.7ghz Asrock Z97 Extreme4 Gigabyte G1 GTX 970 SLI @ 1590Mhz Gigabyte G1 GTX 970 SLI @ 1590Mhz 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
16gb GSkill Sniper 2200mhz Crucial MX100 256gb Samsung F3 1TB Samsung F3 1TB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Seagate 3TB EK Supremacy Evo EK Nickel VGA Block x2 w/ Backplates Alphacool UT60 480mm Rad 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Alphacool XT45 480mm Rad Dual D5 Pump w/ Dual Pump Top Gentle Typhoon AP-15s x18 Win 7 64 bit 
MonitorMonitorPowerCase
Qnix QX2710 1440P + 1080P IPS secondary Benq W1070 Projector on 120" Screen Seasonic Platinum 1200w Corsair 900D 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G9X Mionix Propus 380 ATH AD700 Creative X-Fi Titanium 
Audio
Logitech X-530 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 4790k 4.7ghz Asrock Z97 Extreme4 Gigabyte G1 GTX 970 SLI @ 1590Mhz Gigabyte G1 GTX 970 SLI @ 1590Mhz 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
16gb GSkill Sniper 2200mhz Crucial MX100 256gb Samsung F3 1TB Samsung F3 1TB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Seagate 3TB EK Supremacy Evo EK Nickel VGA Block x2 w/ Backplates Alphacool UT60 480mm Rad 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Alphacool XT45 480mm Rad Dual D5 Pump w/ Dual Pump Top Gentle Typhoon AP-15s x18 Win 7 64 bit 
MonitorMonitorPowerCase
Qnix QX2710 1440P + 1080P IPS secondary Benq W1070 Projector on 120" Screen Seasonic Platinum 1200w Corsair 900D 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G9X Mionix Propus 380 ATH AD700 Creative X-Fi Titanium 
Audio
Logitech X-530 
  hide details  
Reply
post #98 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by the.FBI View Post
Intel has done nothing to encourage a break up, and intel already owns 80% of the cpu marketshare. The way breaking up of monopolies happens is that it is only done if the company A. Does something illegal or B. Does something that is blatantly anti competitive in nature. Intel has done neither of these things and holds such a large market share purely because they have been making better products than the competition.

More on topic: excited about the half the power, this should allow intel to become competitive with ARM when 22nm is worked into the atom processors. Also, does anyone know when this technology will be available, I am curious because I intend to buy a laptop for college in the fall but I don't know if I should wait or simply buy a sandy bridge one.
Incorrect. Intel has in fact done this.

http://www.edn.com/article/458470-In...st_lawsuit.php
Gnomeon
(16 items)
 
GnomeBook Pro
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Xeon E3-1245 V2 ASUS P8Z77-V SAPPHIRE TRI-X OC Radeon R9 290X 4GB  Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB DDR3 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Crucial M550 256GB HGST Travelstar 7K1000 2.5-Inch 1TB 7200 RPM Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ XL2730Z Cooler Master Quickfire Pro Unbranded (Tenkeyless) SeaSonic SG12 550W Fractal Design Define S 
MouseAudioAudioOther
Mionix Avior Swan M10 Philips Fidelio X1 Audio-Technica ATR2500-USB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-2720QM Logic Board Intel HD Graphics 3000 and AMD 6750M 1gb Crucial 16GB 1333MHZ 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
750gb Hitachi 5400rpm 8x double-layer SuperDrive OS x 10.7.4 15.4" LED-backlit glossy widescreen display 144... 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Apple Keyboard Apple 85W MagSafe Power Adapter 2011 Unibody Magic Trackpad 
Audio
Built-in Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
Gnomeon
(16 items)
 
GnomeBook Pro
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Xeon E3-1245 V2 ASUS P8Z77-V SAPPHIRE TRI-X OC Radeon R9 290X 4GB  Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB DDR3 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Crucial M550 256GB HGST Travelstar 7K1000 2.5-Inch 1TB 7200 RPM Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ XL2730Z Cooler Master Quickfire Pro Unbranded (Tenkeyless) SeaSonic SG12 550W Fractal Design Define S 
MouseAudioAudioOther
Mionix Avior Swan M10 Philips Fidelio X1 Audio-Technica ATR2500-USB 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-2720QM Logic Board Intel HD Graphics 3000 and AMD 6750M 1gb Crucial 16GB 1333MHZ 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
750gb Hitachi 5400rpm 8x double-layer SuperDrive OS x 10.7.4 15.4" LED-backlit glossy widescreen display 144... 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Apple Keyboard Apple 85W MagSafe Power Adapter 2011 Unibody Magic Trackpad 
Audio
Built-in Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #99 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post
Seriously? So you think Intel is such an innocent company and AMD is just behind because they have no innovations or good R&D? If you think that then I have a bridge to sell you in New York for cheap.
yes, that might be the reason, why is it so hard for you guys to congest that Intel did better in the last 5 years ? I mean 2006 was a turning point for them mainly because how well the Core Architecture migrated to Desktop/Server CPU's.
I think you should stop giving excuses to any short coming by AMD, I surely hope their executive board doesn't do the same, and instead are focusing on how they are going to be competitive/profitable.
if they needed money in the R&D dep they would invested there instead on acquiring ATI for 5.4B, that's what other members here are probably trying to say.
Main PC
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 2500k @ 5Ghz ASRock Extreme4 Gen3 EVGA GTX 580 8GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Intel 510 SSD ; 2x2TB WD RE4 W7 x64 Samsung BX2450 Corsair AX850 
Case
Corsair 800D 
  hide details  
Reply
Main PC
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 2500k @ 5Ghz ASRock Extreme4 Gen3 EVGA GTX 580 8GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Intel 510 SSD ; 2x2TB WD RE4 W7 x64 Samsung BX2450 Corsair AX850 
Case
Corsair 800D 
  hide details  
Reply
post #100 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
The whole debate is ridiculous and superfluous. Intel are not to blame for all AMD's shortcomings. There has been no corporate espionage, Intel hasn't sabotaged AMD's efforts internally.

I'm not a fanboy. I've mentioned this earlier. Yet I see no reason to continue spouting this trash about illegal practices. It no longer happens. AMD are behind because they are behind. Not because of Intel.
Do you know this for a fact?
Yeah,you aren't biased at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAlex View Post
So tell me how do you get ahead without any money . ~80%+ of the market owned by Intel at the time, do you know much money AMD lost out on? Honestly...you think if Intel hadn't done what they did, AMD would be the underdog right now?
Not to mention Intel is still probably still doing illegal crap,the govt. usually can care less with what huge companies are doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post
Seriously? So you think Intel is such an innocent company and AMD is just behind because they have no innovations or good R&D? If you think that then I have a bridge to sell you in New York for cheap.
Haha,agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post
Nothing illegal? Are you kidding me?

*cough* http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33882559

*cough* http://www.antitrustlawyerblog.com/2...ues_intel.html

There's your precious overlord in action. By the way AMD deserved more than the 1.25 Billion USD they settled for, but they couldn't afford to put up a long trial. I remember reading about the Federal Trade Commission turning around and suing Intel the moment AMD settled. It was music to my ears.

And don't feed us that better product garbage. As consumers you should be angered with Intel for developing the **** that it had been developing when they've recently proved that they were more than capable of producing competitive products. They chose to instead produce garbage that AMD walked all over.

Ever since the Kryptonite-II was released in 1998 AMD was better in every way and at a more reasonable price. AMD beat Intel to the 1.0GHz barrier and when Intel caught up, AMD's product was still better. AMD was the first to bring 64-bit processing to desktops. AMD was the first to abandon the FSB and was the first to utilize an integrated memory controller. When Intel caught wind of AMD's revolutionary Dual-Core processor, they rushed together a shoddy Pentium-D that was just two single cores communicating through the FSB so they could release it first. They only released it four days before AMD and AMD stomped it to the ground at, again, a much more reasonable price.

You can chalk it up to fanboyism, but Intel is one of the most disgusting corporations that I can think of. The only ones worse--off the top of my head--being insurance companies and banks. As for AMD? Well, I'm not so naive to think that any corporation is the consumers friend, but since VIA was snuffed out, they aren't going to offer much competition to Intel and AMD just happens to exceed my needs at a better price.


I'm also not so naive to think that anyone actually reads entire posts, but I just thought I'd just remind people of those "legal" things that Intel has been doing.



Back on topic: AMD and IBM are also developing 3D transistors and since AMD was the first to get to 22nm, I don't think this spells the end for them.
QFT!!
Edited by Heavy MG - 5/8/11 at 10:14am
Moar cores!
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 8320 @ 4.0Ghz/4.2Ghz turbo gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 rev. 4.0 Gigabyte Nvida GTX 770OC 2GB/ Gigabyte 970 G1 G... Gskill Sniper 1866Mhz 8GB (4GB x 2) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB WD Black 1TB Asus 24X CM Hyper 212Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Home X64 HP 22BW 21.5" LED-IPS CM Storm Trigger/MX Brown Corsair TX 650V2 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM HAF922 Logitech G500S Steelseries QCK Mini Asus Xonar DX 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Moar cores!
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 8320 @ 4.0Ghz/4.2Ghz turbo gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 rev. 4.0 Gigabyte Nvida GTX 770OC 2GB/ Gigabyte 970 G1 G... Gskill Sniper 1866Mhz 8GB (4GB x 2) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB WD Black 1TB Asus 24X CM Hyper 212Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Home X64 HP 22BW 21.5" LED-IPS CM Storm Trigger/MX Brown Corsair TX 650V2 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM HAF922 Logitech G500S Steelseries QCK Mini Asus Xonar DX 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [ZDNET] Why Intel's 22nm technology really matters