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post #71 of 80
There is no pulseaudio plugin for wine. So wine outputs to ALSA standards, it's a problem with the ALSA emulation in pulseaudio. If you read the Wine wikki you'll find it says it does not support PulseAudio, period.

[edit]
ALSA
OSS
JACK

And there's a few more I can't think of that it has a native output for.
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post #72 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by parityboy View Post
What are Fedora and Arch like when using WINE with PulseAudio?...

Instability and PulseAudio seem to be synonymous, but is this confined to Ubuntu? Is there any distro where PulseAudio actually behaves properly with WINE?
Works great on Fedora. Ubuntu is the problem there, not PulseAudio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
There is no pulseaudio plugin for wine.
Um, yes there is. I'm using it. So is every other Wine user on Fedora.
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post #73 of 80
Ubuntu's pulse audio implementation is really a shame. Try to imagine this, 2 years ago, it was wayyyyy worse. It is improved these days, but still needs a good bit of work (I personally vote for delete)

They have lost a lot of possible users because of this ... I mean, the sound needs to work. Oh sweet the sound doesn't work.. ah windows 3.1...

Jack or alsa will work on any distro. Some of the apps you install from the distro's repoisotry that depend on pulseaudio only will not work. I think gnome may have a bunch of this crap, which is why they tried to hack pulseaudio in. I also ran into some apps that only looked for /dev/dsp, which does not exist. They could do whatever they wanted and keep a link for that just to preserve backwards compatability. very sound judgement.

I went through the guide out there somewhere "ubuntu remove pulseaudio" and I did get alsa setup and working (mostly ok i think), your results may vary. Before that, I followed all of the guides to "setup pulseaudio correctly" and I did it right, but due to someone elses bugs, it did not work much better.

Also the vlc player was just terrible. I can't believe they think that is production quality. And their guides say "install vlc for media". NO. use smplayer

I really think having different sound stacks is nonsense. This is one piece that should be merged, i.e. jack/alsa/pulse/etc all should deprecate their projects and work towards some good code that would work. I hear jack is the future but have yet to read much. The array of choices with regards to things like window managers is not a bad thing, but the sound stack? Isn't that just one size fits all? (and i personally think that gnome and kde should just merge and make 'windows on linux kernel' .. i mean it's pretty easy to tell they just want it to be the MS windows experience, get it over with and admit it)
Edited by lloyd mcclendon - 5/19/11 at 5:43pm
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post #74 of 80
I see your point, but I don't think it's gonna happen. Especially not the KDE/GNOME merge! Next thing you'll be wanting whole distros to merge....

I think we'll end up with a single standard, just like the HD-DVD/Blu-ray standard (or for those old enough to remember it, Betamax/VHS). One will win out from the others, or at least maintenance will cease on one of them
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post #75 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd mcclendon View Post

I really think having different sound stacks is nonsense. This is one piece that should be merged, i.e. jack/alsa/pulse/etc all should deprecate their projects and work towards some good code that would work. I hear jack is the future but have yet to read much. The array of choices with regards to things like window managers is not a bad thing, but the sound stack? Isn't that just one size fits all?
I agree with this wholeheartedly. There's no need for multiple sound stacks, and there's certainly no need for sound stacks which do not work properly. Sound is expected to work flawlessly. Using ALSA is great, but ALSA is driver-level and has no arbitration - pity there isn't an ALSA sound server.

I think JACK is the best option, and I do wonder why this hasn't been the sound server of choice across distros.

Either way, I'm going to have to test out a few distros - not the Ubuntu-based ones though...
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post #76 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by error10 View Post
Works great on Fedora. Ubuntu is the problem there, not PulseAudio.



Um, yes there is. I'm using it. So is every other Wine user on Fedora.

It's a Fedora thing and not maintained by the wine developers. The source from wineHQ doesn't have a pulseaudio plugin or switch for one. I'm pretty sure though that you aren't using a plugin for pulseaudio, you just have the system using it. This is because the developers for Wine flat out refused to make a plugin for wine that dealt with PulseAudio, mainly because it doesn't allow direct hardware access.

http://art.ified.ca/?page_id=40

It's not officially maintained by Wine devs and is a patch that you have to apply. There for any problems you have they wont' help you with, they will flat out tell you not to use it and to remove pulseaudio. Further more this is a temporary fix as apparently the audio subsystem will make it redundant.

[edit]
http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.ph...7fe2cbdc92db94
Apparently it's not even a real pulseaudio output, it's a hacked/modified OSS for pulseaudio.

[edit2] Their official stance is still against it I believe, though they made their ALSA plugin "pulse friendly"
http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=1457

[edit3]
Quote:
Originally Posted by parityboy View Post
I agree with this wholeheartedly. There's no need for multiple sound stacks, and there's certainly no need for sound stacks which do not work properly. Sound is expected to work flawlessly. Using ALSA is great, but ALSA is driver-level and has no arbitration - pity there isn't an ALSA sound server.

I think JACK is the best option, and I do wonder why this hasn't been the sound server of choice across distros.

Either way, I'm going to have to test out a few distros - not the Ubuntu-based ones though...
Actually ALSA has internal mixing support, it comes with its own mixer now (I believe it started with one). That was one of the large points for ALSA being created. The problem is they have poor documentation, so coding for ALSA is apparently hell. OSS has more documentation but only now became open source. That and the creator apparently did something people didn't like, putting mixing in the kernel level, made it forever to be a sound system that won't be included in the kernel. If he moved the mixing out of the kernel and back into user space that might change.

I would also like to point out that sound servers as of today are only good for a few things, mainly volume control. Volume control and the ability to control different aspects of ALSA, such as toggle the mic or digital output. As of now you don't need PulseAudio on any system, ALSA has full capabilities for mixing and doesn't lock anything out. However pulse did introduce certain hacks/fixes that allows some hardware to run. Those fixes should be pushed back into ALSA, its the job of ALSA to make sure hardware works and not the sound system.

I could go on and on but effectively we don't need Pulse unless your hardware isn't working with ALSA. That's moot though because I believe the new revisions of ALSA now support the hardware that wasn't working. If you ever get amazing hardware support with a distro and it has pulse it's probably because they have better hardware detection.

[edit: final verdict on Pulse is still found]
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10495

And when implemented this next link will make WinePulse obsolete.
http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine...il/077118.html
Edited by mushroomboy - 5/20/11 at 5:22am
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post #77 of 80
^ that makes sense.. i never understood why the pulse project was even invented. I'm sure there's a reason.. whatever it is though, there's no reason to have choices for how to make your speakers beep.

This is one of the key advantages microsoft has. Choices and freedom are great. But sometimes you need oversight saying "why the hell are we doing this twice" and directing resources where they are needed and not wasting them on silly pet projects that make someone feel good.

I hope someone more familiar with all of this will come in and say, "see, pulse exists because __, and alsa is now crap because __" .. since alsa has always and still does work perfectly FINE and pulse has never worked right.

i'm googling for "pulseaudio is ****" and "pulseaudio sucks" .. yep

LOL ". I mean, in theory it's a great idea (just like, in theory, communism works)"
Edited by lloyd mcclendon - 5/20/11 at 4:26pm
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post #78 of 80
At school, we used CentOS, at home I use BackTrack 5 for some obvious reasons
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post #79 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd mcclendon View Post
^ that makes sense.. i never understood why the pulse project was even invented. I'm sure there's a reason.. whatever it is though, there's no reason to have choices for how to make your speakers beep.

This is one of the key advantages microsoft has. Choices and freedom are great. But sometimes you need oversight saying "why the hell are we doing this twice" and directing resources where they are needed and not wasting them on silly pet projects that make someone feel good.

I hope someone more familiar with all of this will come in and say, "see, pulse exists because __, and alsa is now crap because __" .. since alsa has always and still does work perfectly FINE and pulse has never worked right.

i'm googling for "pulseaudio is ****" and "pulseaudio sucks" .. yep

LOL ". I mean, in theory it's a great idea (just like, in theory, communism works)"
PulseAudio actually solves a lot of problems and has quite a few interesting features. Among other things, it actually was written because there were multiple sound servers (e.g. EsounD, aRts) and it intended to replace them all with a single solution. It's largely been successful at this.

A feature I personally use is the ability to set a different volume level for each application. (OSS4 can do this as well, but that alone isn't enough reason to switch.)

Then there's also the ability to send audio streams to another computer, change which sound card a stream is playing on while it's playing, and a bunch of other interesting and useful things. All with low latency and accurate latency measurement so that video/audio stay in sync.

As for "PulseAudio sucks," it only sucks on Ubuntu, and that's because Ubuntu did a terrible job of integrating it.
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post #80 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blostorm View Post
At school, we used CentOS, at home I use BackTrack 5 for some obvious reasons
bt5 is crippled the initial releases always are...

i checked out the new image yesterday, looks nice and its got some more polish on it than bt4 but it was missing like 600mb of tools >_> iso for bt4r2 was 2.4g, the one for bt5 was only 1.8...

ill keep using my bt4r2 disc until there is an r2 of 5

some cool things bout bt5 though are things like they have an ARM version now you can choose between kde3 or gnome2 and i dont even think they had a 64bit version before... but they do now
Kinda meh now...
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