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GTX 470 Tri-SLI and Power Supply - Page 3  

post #21 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
864w seems low for a 900 watt psu, I have a 850 psu and its rated 70a 840w.

I don't know anything really about multi-rail PSUs though, which is why I bought a single rail.
95% of total power on the +12v is not low in any shape or form, it's right where it should be.

@Defoler PCI-E connectors aren't always on the same rail, therefore overloading rails and such are not an issue. It's also worth noting that all modern multi rails now do load balancing automatically. All of the additional components you mentioned in your earlier posts are not going to be powered by a single 18A output.

And yes, the PSU does have 72A on its +12v, the traces are just split up and monitored separately/individually by the OCP circuit. It works 99% identically to a single rail.
Edited by GameBoy - 5/11/11 at 11:30pm
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post #22 of 37
..., ty
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 5/11/11 at 11:26pm
    
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post #23 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
Its nice that you read "hundreds of PSU reviews" but it still doesn't matter, as you did not read this PSU review.
Not all PSUs are the same, and you should know that pretty well.

Also your asumption that you can pull 25A from a 18A rail, is pretty funny.
It could have been correct if the PSU was working on this rail alone, and nothing else.
But clearly, this is not the case. There are other 4 rails, and all of them are being pushed.

So all this theory of yours, goes out the window.

I'm disappointed with you really. The fact is that you did not bother to look up on this particular PSU, and you are talking a lot on something you don't understand.

Also I will say it again.
You can't pull 138% of the amp from a rail without causing damage to it. The cables, resistors and the connection board is not designed for this increase.
The sata cables and molex cables are designed for 75w. You are going to recommend him pushing 100w+ on these cables?
Unbelieveable.

900watt is irrelevent. You are telling him to push a 216w rail (and 75w calbes) to its limits. Awesome...
Defoler ... first off, I'm not TELLING him to do anything. I'm saying it's not dangerous to TRY.

And 900W is NOT irrelevant. It is by far the most pertinent statistic here. The only reason the rail values have any importance is that they may suggest the more favorable ways to arrange the wiring.

In my 2nd post, after pondering the situation overnight, I told the OP that he should make up one of the 6-pin connectors using the molex cables, and for the other 6-pin he needs, to split one of his eight-pin cables into two six-pins.

Of course, (and I probably should've spelled this out) this means he should be using TWO dedicated molex cables to make up the first 6-pin connector. Now, if each cable is rated for 75W (according to you), why is it that you think it's unsafe to combine TWO 75W cables into ONE cable ... that's *supposed* to (with GPU at stock) only pull 75W through it?

That's only about, what, around 6.25 amps we're talking about here? Which leaves him 10.75A to run whatever else he needs to off that rail + whatever extra headroom there is due to the OCP being set higher than 18A, which, like I say, it is certain to be.

I dunno why you're so obsessed with the 25A number I threw out, it's not a calculation of what's going to be needed I'm just saying you could probably get away with pulling 25A though it if you needed to, because the OCP circuit on your average 18A-rated 'rail' is actually set at around 25A. And it's NOT GOING TO HURT ANYTHING IF YOU DO. The worst-case scenario is that the PSU will shut off.

If you think they use wires on an 18A 'rail' that cannot safely have 25A pulled through them, you are wildly mistaken. And I dunno WHAT you're talking about with 'connector boards and resistors' not being 'designed for the increase' ... all that matters is what the OCP circuit is set to, amperage-wise, and whether the wires that make up the 'rail' are of sufficient gauge, which they are.

And as far as splitting the eight pin into two six-pins, that is a cable rated at 150W. I'm telling him to split it into two 6-pin cables. Which are supposed to only have 75W each pulled out of them, if the card is at stock. Right? So how is this so dangerous?

In fact, splitting both the 8 pins into two six-pins is probably the 'best' option here, but those splitters cost money, whereas he probably has two molex->6-pin connectors already laying around, and frankly those should work fine, too. For the reasons I described above. So buying one 8-pin to 2x6-pin splitter, and using two molex adapters, should work perfectly, and is the cheapest possible option (EDIT: Please see 'Belated Edit' for more on this above)

Bottom-line, I stand by what I said above. I know *exactly* what I'm talking about, and your implication that I'm suggesting something wildly stupid and dangerous (roughly what you're implying here) is totally off-base Defoler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GameBoy View Post
And yes, the PSU does have 72A on its +12v, the traces are just split up and monitored separately/individually by the OCP circuit. It works 99% identically to a single rail.
Exactly. It rather seems to me, based on DF's statements throughout this thread, that he believes that 'rails' consist of independent power supplies within your power supply, and thus individual rails can become dangerously overloaded.

This is what is leading him to draw incorrect conclusions about the nature of this particular endeavor (and mistakenly call us all a bunch of 'dummies').

It appears that he is unaware that the 12V 'rails' are nothing but collections of wires, all hooked up to the SAME 72A power source (on this PSU), with OCP circuits on them that are set to trip at a particular amperage.

The 'rails' are a not independent little power supplies, rather, they are just a 'protection' feature that allow the PSU makers to get away with running higher gauge (i.e. cheaper) wires. With OPC circuits on various collections of wires, there becomes no chance that the entire amperage of the unit could be drawn through one single plug, like it theoretically could be on a single 12V rail unit. Ergo, cheaper wires can be used coming out of the psu.

The vast majority of the time, however, these OCP circuits are set to trip at a considerably higher amperage than the spec set out on the box, and the actual wiring itself is of a significantly lower gauge (i.e. thicker) than what is actually required to handle the amperage specified as a max by the OCP that the wires are attached to. It's done this way to allow for flexibility in the way things are hooked up, whilst still providing some measure of protection.

Ergo, there's nothing 'dangerous' at all about 'overdrawing' the amperage on any 'rail' of a multi-rail power supply. Either the OCP circuit that defines that 'rail' will allow your components to draw (off of the 72A source) what they are trying to draw, or it won't ... in which case, the PSU shuts down.
Edited by brettjv - 5/12/11 at 3:53pm
    
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post #24 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by GameBoy View Post
It's also worth noting that all modern multi rails now do load balancing automatically. All of the additional components you mentioned in your earlier posts are not going to be powered by a single 18A output.
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post #25 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmanster View Post
Please see my sig rig. My psu doesn't have two additional pcie connectors to power another 470 but I do know the psu can handle three 470s. I know molex to pcie adaptors are not ideal so would a pcie splitter connector (1 to 2) be a better option or is there a better way I don't know of? I really do not want to buy a new psu with 6 pcie connectors.
Advice will be appreciated!
So anyway, just use those adapters that look like this (which usually come with graphics cards):




Of course, you'll need two of these and 4 spare molex connectors coming from the PSU.
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post #26 of 37
I swear I've seen two other tri sli 470 is my psu good enough threads. Why more threads..
    
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post #27 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
So anyway, just use those adapters that look like this (which usually come with graphics cards):

Of course, you'll need two of these and 4 spare molex connectors coming from the PSU.
Just to clarify, those should be 4 dedicated strands of molex wires (nothing else plugged into them), which I don't think many PSU's have nowadays. I suggested above using one of these, and one 8-pin to 2x6 pin splitters.
    
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post #28 of 37
I'm on my phone so I can't double check what unit the OP has but from the rest of the topic I'm guessing it's a Huntkey X7 900W? If so, it'll be fine. No need to get all worked up about it the worst that can happen is the unit will shut down harmlessly if it thinks you're drawing too much power. But that's not going to happen.
post #29 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
Its nice that you read "hundreds of PSU reviews" but it still doesn't matter, as you did not read this PSU review.
Not all PSUs are the same, and you should know that pretty well.

Also your asumption that you can pull 25A from a 18A rail, is pretty funny.
It could have been correct if the PSU was working on this rail alone, and nothing else.
But clearly, this is not the case. There are other 4 rails, and all of them are being pushed.

So all this theory of yours, goes out the window.

I'm disappointed with you really. The fact is that you did not bother to look up on this particular PSU, and you are talking a lot on something you don't understand.

Also I will say it again.
You can't pull 138% of the amp from a rail without causing damage to it. The cables, resistors and the connection board is not designed for this increase.
The sata cables and molex cables are designed for 75w. You are going to recommend him pushing 100w+ on these cables?
Unbelieveable.

900watt is irrelevent. You are telling him to push a 216w rail (and 75w calbes) to its limits. Awesome...
It's funny your arguing with brettjv. He knows his stuff, and he is actually correct. Not that your incorrect, as it's really not a big deal.

Most power supplys don't lock down at there specified amperage.

OP try it out, worst case is OCP kicks in and it's all sweet.
post #30 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Of course, (and I probably should've spelled this out) this means he should be using TWO dedicated molex cables to make up the first 6-pin connector. Now, if each cable is rated for 75W (according to you), why is it that you think it's unsafe to combine TWO 75W cables into ONE cable ... that's *supposed* to (with GPU at stock) only pull 75W through it?
Maybe because he doesn't have two seperate molex cables just for this, without losing the room for other components?
Have you thought of that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
That's only about, what, around 6.25 amps we're talking about here? Which leaves him 10.75A to run whatever else he needs to off that rail + whatever extra headroom there is due to the OCP being set higher than 18A, which, like I say, it is certain to be.
I guess its just a typo and a silly math error, and you ment 12A, as 150w (two 75 per PCIE) is 12A. Leaving him 6A on that rail. Add 10 fans, 2 pumps, HDDs, no room without pushing those lines and rails off its spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
I dunno why you're so obsessed with the 25A number I threw out, it's not a calculation of what's going to be needed I'm just saying you could probably get away with pulling 25A though it if you needed to, because the OCP circuit on your average 18A-rated 'rail' is actually set at around 25A. And it's NOT GOING TO HURT ANYTHING IF YOU DO. The worst-case scenario is that the PSU will shut off.
You are the one pointing out the 25A, and now trying to walk around it.
If what you say was true, I should be able to run away with pulling 25A on just one molex line, 300W.
In this case, sure, let him have it that way. Super. Great idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
If you think they use wires on an 18A 'rail' that cannot safely have 25A pulled through them, you are wildly mistaken. And I dunno WHAT you're talking about with 'connector boards and resistors' not being 'designed for the increase' ... all that matters is what the OCP circuit is set to, amperage-wise, and whether the wires that make up the 'rail' are of sufficient gauge, which they are.
Again, you don't read the reviews. You are applying knowledge you think you know from other reviews.
Not every PSU is the same. Just a reminder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
And as far as splitting the eight pin into two six-pins, that is a cable rated at 150W. I'm telling him to split it into two 6-pin cables. Which are supposed to only have 75W each pulled out of them, if the card is at stock. Right? So how is this so dangerous?
Now you are saying it. Not before.
Also most likely you won't find a cable like that without making one. There are tons of 2x6 to 1x8, but not the other way around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Exactly. It rather seems to me, based on DF's statements throughout this thread, that he believes that 'rails' consist of independent power supplies within your power supply, and thus individual rails can become dangerously overloaded.
I'm not the idiot you think I am, but I'm starting to think how thick headed you are when pointed out that you are mistaken.
But I do understand the fact that the PSU is going to have to work on the other rails, unlike you and some others.
This information is running right through your ears without hitting anything. You are missing it completely.
What, he is only running the GPU and nothing else so of course the PSU has 52A more to give to that rail? Give me a break...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Where did anyone tell him to run one GPU entirely off of plugs connected to molex cables? Clearly if one were to make two 6-pin cables off of molex cables, the logical way to deploy those would be on two separate GPU's, paired w/the two 'native' 8-pin cables.
You are as if still going to run one GPU of the molex connectors.
Either with two GPUs or one, it doesn't matter the slightest.
You are still pushing 150w off the these connectors.
If you think that if you connect to the top or bottom one it "magically" draws less power, you are vastly mistaken.
When OCed and pushed, the GPU will draw as much power as it can, easily up to, and a bit above, the 75W per PCIE.
This is what the OP wants to do. Not some theoretically exercise in pushing a single rail to 72A...
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