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post #8121 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by moystard View Post

Hello everyone,

I have started overclocking my CPU yesterday, following partially the tutorial in the first post for my initial settings. With a 42x multiplier, everything is perfectly stable, however my vcore is a bit high while on full charge (1.4v). I have difficulties to understand how the offset mode works: my understanding is that the motherboard will try to guess the good vcore and can use the offset while on full charge. I set the offset to 0.04v but as I previously stated, 1.4v seems rather high for 4.2Ghz. What should I do from now on to optimise my o/c?

Check your LLC setting. Otherwise you can use negative offset. Overclocking means trial and error.
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Intel Evilnow
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post #8122 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by owcraftsman View Post

To test my theory I would go back to settings from 2 above and boot to bios. I will assume for the moment there is no OC on the proc and Ai Tuner is set to auto as well (not XMP) before you proceed.
Now set memory freq on the AiTweaker page to 1600 not auto
Then go into Memory Control and set these timings
6-8-6-24-2-5-88-6240-12-6-24-6-4-8-39-41-1-3-3-3-1-4-3-3-4 leaving nothing on auto.
Now pray for the PC Gods to have mercy and press F10 to save and exit.
If that doesn't work then you may have to continue to play with those two settings Round Trip Latency (RTL) until you get it right or have exhausted all effort.

FYI: I took the highest of the two values for each of the RTL settings from the 2x XMP values listed above in item 1) and plugged in my theroy of +6 on the RTL (CHA) and +7 on theRTL (CHB) if you were wondering how I arrived at those numbers.

The theory didn't work for me frown.gif Just tried it.
post #8123 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by owcraftsman View Post


All I can say is this is the way I do it which makes sense to me.
  1. I take a new build and test all at optimized defaults to eliminate defective parts. I'll run HCI overnight and Prime 24 hrs (w/AVX) 24 hrs. then conclude with stressing my GPU where I'll use OCCT or any combination of software that stress the GPU at 100% and scans for artifacts at the same time 3-4 hours here should be sufficient.
  2. If all goes well their I will move on to overclocking my memory to it's factory spec, for this example let's say it's a 1866 pair, I would engage the XMP mode one time only to record it's default timings top to bottom then use that to set manually in bios, furthermore I boost VCCIO and Vdimm slighty for insurance just in case I have a weak IMC proc., then test memory using HCI design Memtest. I usually run that until the slowest of the two iteration (usually the 2nd "all Remaining") 1 being (100%) of RAM and 2 (all remaining) reach a minimum of 200% coverage or overnight which is best. Paid version records all to a log, recording all errors short and long but continues to run, and is available even if the PC crashes to better diagnose the root cause. A quick look at their web site reveled they have a newer version, likely better, that I have not purchased yet but I purchased my version two years ago now. It may well be worth upgrading to but, I haven't yet, if I were you I would buy the current version and follow it's direction for best results.
  3. Once I know my overclocked memory is stable at default CPU clocks I will move on to OC the proc unless I plan to OC my GPU at which point now is the time for that otherwise you are putting the cart before the horse. At this time I see no good reason to overclock my memory beyond it's rated specs as there is very little performance gain to be had beyond that w/o headaches.
  4. Once I know my OCed GPU and Memory is rock solid at default CPU clocks it less likely they will be the root cause of an OC failure using Prime unless the failure is due to a voltage issue related to the proc itself. It's hard to rule any of that out of course but I'm saying it's less likely, as per usual you'll need to examine closely the failure to be sure. It's important to keep in mind by running your hardware overclocked it places a higher demand on the system bus in general including the IMC & chipset more specifically. Since these systems are designed to be overclocked typically their is a voltage or other bios parameter adjustment that can be made to effect a correction. Bottom line it's time to manual vcore overclock the proc using Prime. You'll need to understand what your low idle time x16 & high 100% laod vcore requirements are for a given clock. To determine this I typically use a custom blend w/max memory running 1344, 1792 & 2688 iterations say an hour each until I find the right voltages that pass.
  5. Now that I'm completely stable running those three I move on to offset mode. To check my settings I'm looking for the voltages to register in windows that I noted before as a requirement for low x16 and high 100% load vcore. As you may know dropping below the stock low idle vcore can cause idle time BSODs which is why I've taken this opportunity to point it out again. Depending on your proc specifically this will effect certain parameters as set in the bios play around with your setting until you see what you are looking for. Once I see the right voltages or slightly higher I will begin by testing the same three different iteration with Prime over again until I pass them.
  6. Now that I'm confident with voltages and temps it's time for a 24 hour max mem custom blend using all default iterations. Still there's no assurance you will pass but in most cases I'm very close at this point and only minor changes are in order. One thing for sure I'm not pulling my hair out trying to figure out what the problem is.


Once again nothing here is etched in stone, it's simply my method and it works for me. I hope this helps!

edit: corrected some spelling and grammar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

No problem.

Hmmm, so anything higher than 1333MHz for SB is an overclocked RAM module already? My RAM kits (2 kits of 2x2GB) are rated 1600MHz CAS7. I can run them stable at 1600MHz but at CAS9 and at Auto VCCIO and 1.5 Vdimm. Usually for 4 RAM modules, what setting do you have increase? Only CAS latency?

In the Intel Memory section of OCN, they say that VCCIO is VTT but NOT the IMC voltage. They say that VCCSA is the IMC voltage.

What do you think on this?
post #8124 of 9343
VCCSA is SystemAgent voltage which is NOT TO BE TOUCHED. At least for sandy and ivy.
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Intel Evilnow
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post #8125 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post

VCCSA is SystemAgent voltage which is NOT TO BE TOUCHED. At least for sandy and ivy.

Yes. The thing is that some say VCCIO is the IMC voltage and some say VCCSA is. You're one of those who say that VCCSA is NOT the IMC voltage.

This is what's confusing me.
post #8126 of 9343
VCCIO is the IO voltage. It's the voltage for the controller which controls what goes into cpu from outside, I/O Input Output. This covers both rams and PCI-E lanes.

VCCSA is about the BCLK, which is suggested to remain at 100.0 at all times, that's why you are not supposed to touch VCCSA either biggrin.gif

I never read VCCSA being/confused for Memory Controller anywhere. You could, however confuse VCCSA with regular NB voltage like a FSB voltage in the old days. AMD still calls it NB voltage and CPU-NB for the IMC. So, VCCSA is tied to BCLK, as NB is tied to Base Clock/Freq on AMD. Might provide a bit stability if you are messing with BCLK, which many avoid (can cause data corruption), max is 0.975v
Edited by Catscratch - 1/18/13 at 7:32am
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post #8127 of 9343

Do either of you have the ability to ADJUST VCCSA in your bios?

I know I lost that ability when updating from the original bios release on z68 and moving from p67 to z68.

It's my understanding it has been removed from most bios (asus at least). 

In an effort to help you understand what's happening all I know for sure it what I have seen happen on my own systems. I know vccsa adjust dynamically.  For example at default setting/stock clocks either load or idle my vccsa voltage hovers around .0925 (the default). When I take the same system and set to run a 4.6 overclock it hovers at 1.111vccsa. I conclude it dynamically adjust. In an effort to understand why I had to tinker because there is no setting in my bios to effect a change of this parameter. After much consternation I know that adjusting the vccio has an effect on raising the SA voltage. Although electrically the vccio effects the i/o range of the CPU pins it does not effect memory pins which one would assume is the IMC. In there lies the source of confusion. Taken logically it would appear counter productive then to adjust the vccio to improve memory compatibility since it doesn't effect the memory pins however adjusting it directly effects the dynamics of the SA voltage which is in part the IMC which is why it's effective. I know it's complicated and I don't make it any easier by my inability to articulate it properly but do try to digest what I'm suggesting here. This explains why most feel the vccio is the IMC voltage when in actuality it is not. It also explains why adjusting vccsa, when available, has an adverse effect. It needs to be controlled by the Proc and hard setting it when it needs to be dynamic is overly complicated or impossible to nail down at best.

 

FYI: I use Adia64 (paid ver) to monitor vccsa and you can check for yourself the dynamic nature of the vccsa and the effects adjusting vccio has on it. I'm not trying to say vccio is the be all to end all in terms of fixing memory issues as it's not clear to me that other bios parameters don't have similar effects to the dynamic vccsa voltage not the least of which maybe PLL voltage adjustments and LLC settings all may play a role in someway. I'd have to do more testing to understand completely.  What I do know is I used stock clocks vs overclocked settings as evidence so the latter involved changing PLL and LLC but the vccio adjustment was only needed when running all four dimm slots populated at memory & cpu overclocked speeds. Otherwise the auto setting for vccio and vccsa is adequate for most cpu overclocks and 2x dimm slot overclocked memory.

 

In any case, as always, I hope this helps!


Edited by owcraftsman - 1/18/13 at 9:32am
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post #8128 of 9343
SB datasheet:-
VCCSA: System Agent (memory controller, DMI, PCIe controllers, and display engine) power supply

VCCSA not just for base clocks overclocking but also for memory frequencies overclocking.

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post #8129 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by kizwan View Post

SB datasheet:-
VCCSA: System Agent (memory controller, DMI, PCIe controllers, and display engine) power supply

VCCSA not just for base clocks overclocking but also for memory frequencies overclocking.


+1

  • VCCSA: Starting with the second-generation Core i processors (“Sandy Bridge”), the VTT voltage was renamed to VCCSA, and is called “system agent.” It feeds the integrated PCI Express controller, memory controller, and display engine (i.e., the “2D” part of the graphics engine).
  • VCCIO: Available starting with the second-generation Core i CPUs (“Sandy Bridge”), this voltage is used for feeding all input/output (I/O) pins of the CPU, except memory-related pins. On CPUs that have this voltage, it is also used to feed the thermal control bus (PECI, Platform Environmental Control Interface).

 

source

 

VccSA – This is the voltage with controls the “System Agent” (new “uncore”).  Since the L3 cache has been moved to the core, the only thing left on the System Agent that concerns us as overclockers is the integrated memory controller (IMC).  It’s already been discovered that the IMC on Sandy Bridge is quite robust, and usually won’t need any additional voltage for speeds up to DDR3-2000 and possibly even higher.  I found I needed about 1.15V for maximum potential when running very fast memory speeds.  This may also be important with very high density DIMMs or when fully populating the DIMM slots on your motherboard.  At this time, I would caution using any more than 1.2V on the VccSA.

VccIO – This is the voltage which controls the SA’s IO. Many users and manufacturers are taking issue with my claims of the SA voltage being most important for IMC overclocking. While I cannot explain my personal results, they definitely go against the majority. With that being said, the motherboard manufacturers and many uses will tell you to only adjust the VccIO, and leave the VccSA alone…I’m recommending you try both, and see which works better for your CPU. My testing was difinitively VccSA reliant. At this time, I would caution using any more than 1.2V on the VccIO.

 

source

 

VCCSA
This has shown in internal testing not to improve overclocking, yet may still maintain the same level of stability while being lowered from its default value in order to keep the CPU cooler.
VCCIO
The adjustment of this voltage may help to slightly improve the overclocking capability of the IMC / DRAM, even though the default voltage is enough to run at a 2133MHz DRAM frequency. A 1.20v setting is more than adequate to maximize Memory overclocks in most cases.

 

 

 

VCCSA/VCCIO - On previous platforms (P55/X58) we had the Uncore to describe any part of the CPU that wasn't the actual core, so this would be the memory controller, PCIe and so on, Sandy Bridge CPUs have a different architecture, and with that comes a whole new bucket load of acronyms, VCCSA is the voltage for the "System Agent", which in a nutshell, is the Sandy Bridge equivalent of Uncore. VCCIO is the I/O voltage for the memory controller. Adjusting the VCCSA and VCCIO voltages can help at higher clocks with higher memory speeds and tighter timings, more on this later.

 

source

 

VCCSA
This has shown in internal testing not to improve overclocking, yet may still maintain the same level of stability while being lowered from its default value in order to keep the CPU cooler.
VCCIO
The adjustment of this voltage may help to slightly improve the overclocking capability of the IMC / DRAM, even though the default voltage is enough to run at a 2133MHz DRAM frequency. A 1.20v setting is more than adequate to maximize Memory overclocks in most cases

 

souce

 


VCC/VCCIO/CPUIO

It's CPU Input/Output (IO voltage terminals. This voltage work just like QPI/VVT/IMC and the default voltage is
1.05v but it needs to keep within 1.10 - 1.20v when your overclock beyond 4GHz, increasing this voltage also help
to improve the stability when 4 memory DIMMs occupied and its max speed (2133MHz). This high voltage
doesn't seem to affect overclocking.

VCCSA
This is "System Agent" voltage inside the CPU. Since Sandy Bridge's IMC (Integarated Memrory Controller) and
PCI-E controller are very robust therefore you don't really need high voltage to run your DDR3 at highest speeds.
The default voltage is 0.95v and it is not important to have it above the default value. It's best to keep it at default.

 

source

ult value. It's best to keep i

VCCIO: more commonly known at QPI/VTT voltage, this is the VTT voltage. Formally known as Processor Power for I/O it is the voltage for the integrated memory controller as well as the PCI-E controller. While Intel’s Maximum is 1.05 +/- 3% = 1.08v, you can go higher, much higher. I would recommend staying below 1.2v for 24/7 use, but depending on the quality of the IMC on your chip, I have seen 2133 MHz done on as little at 1.1v. I used 1.12v for overclocking my Dominator 1600 MHz to 1866 MHz, and it did it without any problems. Do realize that this voltage contributes heat as well to the whole thermal package.

 

VCCSA: More commonly known as System Agent Voltage. Intel’s maximum System Agent Voltage (Vccsa) is 0.971v and minimum is 0.879v. Stock is 0.925v. System Agent Voltage should NOT be touched, it is supposed to be a fixed voltage, and it powers many things that the VCC does not power. One of the most important is the Power Control Unit (PCU) which controls internal power allocation of the processor. This voltage is to be generated by a separate VRM than used for SVID. So on the P67A-UD7 this voltage is generated by a two phase buck analogue PWM, with 4 phases, this voltage and the VTT (Vccio) come from the same VRM(not surprisingly voltage read points are right next to each other as well).

 

source

 

Lots of conflicting statements here bottom line over and over agin bumping vcccio memory controller or not fixes memory compatibilty issues either at high speed or 4x dimm slot population.


Edited by owcraftsman - 1/18/13 at 12:52pm
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post #8130 of 9343
I've read these last few pages with interest to see if someone can find a solution.

Now, neither of my Z68-V Pro or Z77-V boards have had both of these options, only VCCSA. I keep VCCSA at auto (0.925v) for my 2133Mhz CAS9 RAM but it only populates 2 DIMMs - XMP1 makes it a 2134Mhz while XMP2 makes it a 2132Mhz and both profiles set the 'memory controller' to 1.05v automagically.

When I download AIDA extreme trial, it shows my RAM volts at 1.625v (it's set to 1.65v in BIOS by the XMP profile) and VCCIO at 1.05V which appears to match the 'memory controller' volts value - however, if I up the VCCSA manually in BIOS then VCCIO in AIDA has gone up too. But because I cannot find VCCSA value in AIDA (?) I can't tell if it's 1:1.

Neither of these volts change under Prime Blend load or under idling.

Not a lot of helpful information, just figured I'd post what I see.
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