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post #8471 of 9343
Maybe it isn't functioning properly. Spread spectrum should reduce interference, not create it.
post #8472 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

Maybe it isn't functioning properly. Spread spectrum should reduce interference, not create it.

 

I don't know if it's interference because the noise stops when I close WinDVD.  I will be testing it every day though.

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i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
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post #8473 of 9343
thinking.gif
post #8474 of 9343
OK, you all have got me addicted to squeezing every little bit of performance from my rig, so for the heck of it I decided to try and OC my RAM. I've got 4x4 of DDR3-1600 CL9 Kingston HyperX Blue which is XMP rated for 9-9-9-27 at 1.65V. So, I went into my P8Z68-V Pro/GEN3's bios and set the memory Frequency to DDR3-1866MHz and set the DRAM Timing Control to 9-10-9-28-2T. I save and reboot and I am pleasantly surprised that Win7 loaded just fine and my system seems just a little snappier. Am I dreaming? smile.gif
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post #8475 of 9343
@TwoCables

What is your take on unclewebb's explanation of using Manual? Please explain as he stopped responding to my PM.
post #8476 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

@TwoCables

What is your take on unclewebb's explanation of using Manual? Please explain as he stopped responding to my PM.

 

He's probably extraordinarily busy.  He's a nice guy; he won't ignore you.

 

Right now, I lack the time and the mental capacity to try and explain it.  So the only thing I can recommend for now is to re-read what he has posted here in this thread and re-read what he posted in our private message.

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i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
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post #8477 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

He's probably extraordinarily busy.  He's a nice guy; he won't ignore you.

Right now, I lack the time and the mental capacity to try and explain it.  So the only thing I can recommend for now is to re-read what he has posted here in this thread and re-read what he posted in our private message.

Oh ok.

I did re-read all of the things he said and they all make sense to me until Forceman replied here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1219588/updated-part-ii-offset-mode-overclocking-starter-guide-and-thread/170#post_19303445 which he also makes a point. Can you deduce the difference between their arguments?
post #8478 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post


Oh ok.

I did re-read all of the things he said and they all make sense to me until Forceman replied here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1219588/updated-part-ii-offset-mode-overclocking-starter-guide-and-thread/170#post_19303445 which he also makes a point. Can you deduce the difference between their arguments?

 

I guess I can try.  Like I said, I'm at a low mental capacity and I'm low on time:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Here's my thought on that. The CPU changes speeds in milliseconds - is that actually slower than it is going to wake up from C6? Any task that is going to take a measurable amount of time is going to cause the CPU to speed up - there is no "1 second" calculation that is going to happen at 1600 Mhz. Plus, if the core is asleep, then no processing at all can be done until it wakes up - the entire pipeline is idle until that point - so by the time the CPU can wake up and the pipeline can be filled it should already be at full speed.

 

My question to this would be:  then why do we notice differences when we change memory timings?  Memory timings are simply values in milliseconds.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

We aren't talking about downclocking and down voting without C3/C6 (at least I'm not) so anything that is going to happen power saving wise is going to happen either way.

 

I see a ~15W drop to my idle power with C3 and C6 enabled.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I guess what it comes down to is, in the age when CPUs can change speeds hundreds (thousands?, millions?) of times a second, I can't see that there is any energy saving to be found by running it faster at idle. We're talking millivolts of difference here (actually even less, picovolts?), if anything.

 

If a CPU is changing speeds hundreds, thousands, or even millions of times per second, then those tiny millisecond delays can add up to being quite noticeable just like with memory timings.  I mean, 1 whole second is 1,000 milliseconds.  So, do the math.  ;)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I can support the argument that it is better to run fixed+C3/C6 than offset+disabled, but I'm not at all convinced that not downclocking/down volting is a good idea. I'm pretty sure unclewebb said in the other thread that he runs with EIST enabled, so he's downclocking.

 

I'd like unclewebb to respond to this.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

If running full speed all the time is better, why didn't Intel make that the default? Why have they spent so much time and effort improving EIST to make it faster and more granular? Why develop Turbo Boost?

 

I think that it's not that running full speed is better, but that using a fixed voltage is better because if all cores are in the C6 state, then it's using 0.00V.  I don't know if this is true, so I'll let unclewebb explain it.


Edited by TwoCables - 2/18/13 at 8:46pm
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i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
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post #8479 of 9343
Yeah, thanks for the explanation.

I think Forceman means that he is running at Offset + C3/C6 enabled. He is not against using C3/C6 enabled. He is against preventing the CPU from downclocking/downvolting which really makes sense as well until unclewebb discusses it fully. I'm even confused if unclewebb lets his CPU downclock because some of his replies seem to be against downclocking and yet some are explaining that his CPU is downclocking. His EIST is enabled as well, only C1E is disabled.

I hope he can help us here. We are done how C3/C6 needs to be enabled for power savings. What is lacking now is if it's better to use Offset + downclocking/downvolting enabled, Offset + downclocking/downvolting disabled, Manual +downclocking enabled, or Manual + downclocking disabled.
post #8480 of 9343
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Yeah, thanks for the explanation.

 

You're welcome!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

I think Forceman means that he is running at Offset + C3/C6 enabled. He is not against using C3/C6 enabled. He is against preventing the CPU from downclocking/downvolting which really makes sense as well until unclewebb discusses it fully. I'm even confused if unclewebb lets his CPU downclock because some of his replies seem to be against downclocking and yet some are explaining that his CPU is downclocking. His EIST is enabled as well, only C1E is disabled.

 

Then his CPU is only downclocking and not downvolting.  His focus is on not allowing the CPU to downvolt because he's recommending a fixed voltage.

 

Anyway, I admit that I was assuming that he had C1E disabled because C1E allows the CPU's voltage to drop while the CPU is idling (EIST only affects the clock speed somehow).  The reason why it drops with an offset is the voltage it is constantly depending on what the VID is.  Each multiplier has its own VID, and the VID for the x16 multiplier is very low and therefore results in a lower core voltage.  For example, my VID for x16 is 0.9807V and so adding +0.065V to that results in about 1.032V to 1.048V (usually), and sometimes goes as high as 1.088V - all while idling.

 

I don't really know from personal experience yet if using a fixed voltage would make for faster transitions in and out of the idle state, but it's so fast already that I doubt that I'd notice.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

I hope he can help us here. We are done how C3/C6 needs to be enabled for power savings. What is lacking now is if it's better to use Offset + downclocking/downvolting enabled, Offset + downclocking/downvolting disabled, Manual +downclocking enabled, or Manual + downclocking disabled.

 

He's saying that it's best to use fixed with C3/C6 enabled.  Based on his personal settings, it seems that he would also recommend EIST enabled with C1E disabled.  I think he is trying to say that this minimizes the time it takes to go in and out of the idle state.  Although, I don't know from experience yet if there's a noticeable real-world difference.

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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
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Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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