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Carmack picks a side in the Nvidia/AMD GPU war

post #1 of 11
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Quote:
John Carmack: Let me caution this by saying that this is not necessarily a benchmarked result. We’ve had closer relationships with Nvidia over the years, and my systems have had Nvidia cards in them for generations. We have more personal ties with Nvidia. As I understand it, ATI/AMD cards are winning a lot of the benchmarks right now for when you straight-out make synthetic benchmarks for things like that, but our games do get more hands-on polish time on the Nvidia side of things.

Nvidia does have a stronger dev-relations team. I can always drop an email for an obscure question. So its more of a socio-cultural decision there rather than a raw “Which hardware is better.†Although that does feed back into it, when you’ve got the dev-relation team that is deeply intertwined with the development studio. That tends to make your hardware, in some cases, come out better than what it truly is, because it’s got more of the software side behind it.
Source

I thought about posting this in news but then I remembered all the times that I've heard: "opinions =/= news"

He has some interesting points though.
 
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post #2 of 11
The developer-relationship that Carmack is talking about, has always been a big downfall for AMD. This helps to explain part of the reason why many games get driver and profile updates for games some time after release from AMD, versus Nvidia, who usually has updates on release day of the game (at least for big, triple-A titles). Things are starting to look better for AMD, though, with the new CAP system in place so the turn around times for updates are much quicker than before.

However, I think there is probably more to the story than that. I think another aspect is the incentives that Nvidia offers to developers. Aside from prompt customer service, like Carmack mentioned, there are most likely some monetary incentives in order to be cast under "The Way It's Meant to Be Played" umbrella. With some of the budgets that these studios rack up, they are starting to rival those of movie productions, so any sort of contribution will go a long way.

I do believe that if AMD had stronger ties with game developers, they could potentially away even more market share from Nvidia.
     
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post #3 of 11
If it weren't for ATI then we would have to pay $500 for a decent high end GPU.

In this business market share is highly dependent on timing and marketing. If you look at the Steam statistics, most DX11 GPUs are ATI because they had a lead. However, Nvidia has very good marketing. Ever wonder why developers weren't testing Crysis 2 on ATI HD6970 or why Dice said they're using GTX 580 SLI in their Battlefield 3 presentation ? It's not because Nvidia cards are necessarily better, it's because they use their cash to stimulate developers.
post #4 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfgar View Post
If it weren't for ATI then we would have to pay $500 for a decent high end GPU.

In this business market share is highly dependent on timing and marketing. If you look at the Steam statistics, most DX11 GPUs are ATI because they had a lead. However, Nvidia has very good marketing. Ever wonder why developers weren't testing Crysis 2 on ATI HD6970 or why Dice said they're using GTX 580 SLI in their Battlefield 3 presentation ? It's not because Nvidia cards are necessarily better, it's because they use their cash to stimulate developers.
Three points.

One, it's good we do have competition between AMD and Nvidia. As consumers we benifit as they strive to be better at competitive prices or greater performance to try to earn our money. I agree with you.

Second, Nvidia does have good markteing but so does AMD and has as many chances at it as Nvidia. AMD isn't poor by any means. I disagree that Nvidia has that much hold on developers or we'd have seen a huge push to Phsyx which just hasn't happened. I also disagree that Nvidia cards aren't necessarily better because I feel they are and drivers are a big part of it. Let's give credit where credit is due.

Lastly, having said that, it really depends on which cards we are comparing between AMD vs Nvidia. They each have wins and loses on both sides vs cards they compete with.

Example - GTX 580 > AMD 6970 and GTX 590 < AMD 6990.


Lastly, You can argue all day long, things like price per performance, raw performance regardless of price or areas where both excel better than the other but which is better will vary from person to person based on their indiviual needs, reasons or uses out the the cards.

I've said it before and I'd like to point it out again, choosing between AMD and Nvidia is like trying to pick a green or red apple out of a barrel when they both taste as good.

It's not like your going to get a bad card regardless of what ever you choose between the two. Which brings me full circle back to the first point, it's good we have this competition rather than a monopoly.
     
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post #5 of 11
No surprises there. And to be fair, there's nothing stopping AMD from trying to beat Nvidia in the TWIMTBP program. If AMD chooses not to do so, that's their decision.
    
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post #6 of 11
1.- "Nvidia does have a stronger dev-relations team. I can always drop an email for an obscure question."

2.- "We’ve had closer relationships with Nvidia over the years"

3.- "when you’ve got the dev-relation team that is deeply intertwined with the development studio. That tends to make your hardware, in some cases, come out better than what it truly is, because it’s got more of the software side behind it. "


Did you hear that AMD?!?! "Support developers" thats all you need.. stop with the idiot hippy "open source" crap..

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post #7 of 11
If I'm not mistaking, Carmack/iD are still dealing with OpenGL versus directX for games right?

If so, is it possible that nVIDIA's devellopper support for OpenGL is a lot better?
post #8 of 11
Think they switched to DX.

Also Carmack doesn't really matter anymore. Most people have no clue who he is and id isn't relevant anymore. Not sure why anybody would care which company he prefers.
     
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post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfgar View Post
If it weren't for ATI then we would have to pay $500 for a decent high end GPU.

In this business market share is highly dependent on timing and marketing. If you look at the Steam statistics, most DX11 GPUs are ATI because they had a lead. However, Nvidia has very good marketing. Ever wonder why developers weren't testing Crysis 2 on ATI HD6970 or why Dice said they're using GTX 580 SLI in their Battlefield 3 presentation ? It's not because Nvidia cards are necessarily better, it's because they use their cash to stimulate developers.
They ran it on a single 580, not SLI.
    
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post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemama1956 View Post
Think they switched to DX.

Also Carmack doesn't really matter anymore. Most people have no clue who he is and id isn't relevant anymore. Not sure why anybody would care which company he prefers.
most people are clowns.

ID software have done alot over the years and to say that Carmack and ID dont matter anymore is boarding on stupidity.

The Q3A engine is still being used in the CoD series for example.

Just wait for the next ID software game engine to see just how RELEVANT they are

/rant
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