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Phenom II WHY no X8 cpus? - Page 4

post #31 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pietro sk;13478307 
it is possible to throw more cores on a K10 die, but.....

-bigger chip die - big price
-bigger chip die - worse % yields - higher price (radeon vs fermi)
-more cores, less overclock, lower stock speeds
thuban is already not a small chip... think about it.
i´m sure, 8 K10 cores will eat more power , than 8 BD cores.wink.gif

It is rather big, http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=256092 not much space left for more cores.
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post #32 of 81
Even when ignoring the physical limitations a X8 Phenom would imply, the reason why we never saw one is simple: 8 cores PHII is completely useless. The limiting factor right now for Phenom II is not the cores it is the architecture.

Games don't us more than 4 cores. Regular apps, no comment. So 8 core is just completely overkill and honestly the performances would suck (low clocks, meh architecture = crappy perfs).

I am not saying that PHII is bad (Im completely satisfied with mine) but it's definitely not good either. It's good at mid-range level, and at mid-range there is no need for 8 cores.
post #33 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by reflex99;13479173 
I3 laptop is like 2.4ghz.

I5 I used at 4ghz.

It would make 0 difference in "system responsiveness". The only thing that would is either an SSD or a faster hard drive (boot drive), unless you're gonna claim running a web browser maxed out your Phenom?
    
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post #34 of 81
8 core cpus seem future proof but will actually be obsolete when applications start to use all of those cores. I personally will buy quads for the next 2-3 years smile.gif
    
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post #35 of 81
I did read every post and all I can say is, "The soup man says no!"
 
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post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy;13478642 
I have a PHII and it's slow as crap. Happy?

If it's "slow as crap" there is something definitely wrong with your system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am*;13479340 
It would make 0 difference in "system responsiveness". The only thing that would is either an SSD or a faster hard drive (boot drive), unless you're gonna claim running a web browser maxed out your Phenom?
^ THIS .
Edited by Heavy MG - 5/12/11 at 3:16pm
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post #37 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by reflex99;13478874 
I did too.

I owned a 1055t at launch , then sold it an bought an I5 650 dual core. The difference in system responsiveness, and game performance was significantly better with th i5.

Phenom isn't "slow", its just not as fast

Most probable you ve chosen the wrong RAM ,HDD or something.As this is the reason i use AMD ,for responsiveness.CnQ was on ?! smile.gif
   
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post #38 of 81
Thuban is already a rather large die despite the fact that it has less cache distributed per core than Deneb. (This is why we found out that 3.2 Ghz X6 was slower than 3.2 Ghz X4 in single thread)

Adding two cores and the needed cache back would not only be physically impossible but would push AMD over their TDP goals.

Thermal Design Power is heat output...not power input. Phenom II X6 already uses a lot more power than you think. A 125w TDP X6 CPU uses about 15-30% more power than a 125w TDP Phenom II X4 chip. This goes up more with overclocking. Overclocking an X8 would most definately bring some motherboards to their grave.

AMD would also have to release CPU's at lower frequencies...X8 at 2.2 Ghz with 2.7 Ghz Turbo doesn't sound very promising, does it? It would be slower than an overclocked Athlon 64 X2 CPU in single thread workloads. Besides, CPU validation process would also take months...you have to have samples, then validate those samples, come up with more samples, test those samples, tweak those samples, get more samples, then make a bunch of chips to satisfy numbers needed on release day.

With Bulldozer coming up in a month and a much better architecture at 32nm right around the corner why would AMD still waste time with Phenom II at 45nm?
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post #39 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pietro sk;13478307 
it is possible to throw more cores on a K10 die, but.....

-bigger chip die - big price
-bigger chip die - worse % yields - higher price (radeon vs fermi)
-more cores, less overclock, lower stock speeds
thuban is already not a small chip... *think about it.
i´m sure, 8 K10 cores will eat more power , than 8 BD cores.wink.gif

Exactly. The X8 would've used almost twice the die size as the X4. I imagine it was already difficult to fit Thuban inside a 125W TDP envelope. Isn't that one of the reasons AMD went with modules on Bulldozer? You get two integer cores in one module but the extra integer core only adds 12% to the die size so lower power consumption and less materials so probably cheaper to manufacture.

If you really wanted 8 (or heck, even 12 cores), Magny Cours isn't all that expensive. Of course, you'd have to make do with a 1.9-2.4 GHz clock speed.
Edited by rui-no-onna - 5/12/11 at 3:36pm
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post #40 of 81
On topic:
The Phenom X6 die is already approching the maximum length, and adding more width wouldn't allow them to fit 2 more cores since that is not how AMD set up the Phenom dies.

If you really want some sort of many core Phenom, the G34 opterons have 2 dies in one package, so they either have 8 or 12 cores. (2X4, or 2X6, similar to Pentium D or Kentsfield). If AMD could have put all 8/12 cores on the same die, they would have. It would be a lot cheaper to produce (assuming yeilds weren't terribly low), and it would definitely run cooler.

We have already seen what happens when AMD tries to add more cores to an already maxed out architechture with the Agena X4's. Adding two more to a thuban die would probably yeild similar results. If they attempted to squeeze the 2 extra cores in there, they would probably have to either leave the cache the same, or cut it down a bit to make room for the extra cores, and it would be a repeat of phenom 1.

Off topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am*;13479340 
It would make 0 difference in "system responsiveness". The only thing that would is either an SSD or a faster hard drive (boot drive), unless you're gonna claim running a web browser maxed out your Phenom?

System responsiveness. In other words, how well the system seems to react to your input.

I feel like the i5 was a lot quicker than the X6.

Of course the X6 beat it down in CPU heavy stuff like transcoding and cinebench though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromihetes;13482123 
Most probable you ve chosen the wrong RAM ,HDD or something.As this is the reason i use AMD ,for responsiveness.CnQ was on ?! smile.gif

CnQ is never on. wheee.gif

Same ram/HDD/everything only swapped motherboard and CPU in that swap.

Just so I can clear any perceptions of "fanboyism", right now i am typing on a Phenom II x2, which compliments my 2 Turion based laptops, and backup Phenom II x4.

The one is my sig is the only intel gear i own (aside from some old celerons). The reason i have it is because at the time when i bought it, AMD could not run bigadv effectively.
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