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post #11 of 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davieg View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_(software))

Whether thats still valid I'm not sure. Not that I think its a bad thing if it does exist to be honest.

As its brought up in this court case also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_(bot))
Quote:
Originally Posted by davieg View Post
No but he did ask about things like Punkbuster too.. Thats not really DRM either is it.
Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I will use a separate partition for it I guess, just as I do for other games with this sort of protection.

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post #12 of 24
Blizzard has definitely got a good system in place for WoW, makes it much easier for people to enjoy the game. You buy the game, associate the cd key to your account and you're good to go. Blizzard even offers an online download of the game client, as long as you have the right credentials.

The best is the fact that you can copy/paste your WoW account to create backups if you ever need to reformat.
post #13 of 24
It looks as though you didn't mean DRM.

DRM = Digital rights management. DRMs give files physical protection against being copied, transferred, or used illegally.

Anti-cheating software, on the other hand, is an embedded process that runs alongside a game. This process scans active tasks, active memory, checks against suspicion keyboard patterns, etc etc. You never know it's there, but it is. Blizzard uses software called The Warden and it's VERY effective. You should know that having the game on a separate partition will not preclude the rest of your system from its purview.

The Warden has functionality that will scan both in-process and out-of-process modules. Everything from intentionally modifying local game files (model edits) to illegal addons to "hacks" running far in the background.

There is no personally identifiable information, if that's what you're concerned about. The Warden is a VERY good thing. There are, as with any software like this, very rare false-positives. In return, the rest of us get to play with fewer hackers and botters. As an added bonus, Warden also protects you against some common keyloggers. If it picks up malicious software in the background, it will not let you enter a password and will redirect you to an outside page to explain to you that you've been infected.

Hope that helps.
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post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post
It looks as though you didn't mean DRM.

DRM = Digital rights management. DRMs give files physical protection against being copied, transferred, or used illegally.

Anti-cheating software, on the other hand, is an embedded process that runs alongside a game. This process scans active tasks, active memory, checks against suspicion keyboard patterns, etc etc. You never know it's there, but it is. Blizzard uses software called The Warden and it's VERY effective. You should know that having the game on a separate partition will not preclude the rest of your system from its purview.

The Warden has functionality that will scan both in-process and out-of-process modules. Everything from intentionally modifying local game files (model edits) to illegal addons to "hacks" running far in the background.

There is no personally identifiable information, if that's what you're concerned about. The Warden is a VERY good thing. There are, as with any software like this, very rare false-positives. In return, the rest of us get to play with fewer hackers and botters. As an added bonus, Warden also protects you against some common keyloggers. If it picks up malicious software in the background, it will not let you enter a password and will redirect you to an outside page to explain to you that you've been infected.

Hope that helps.
It wasn't security I was worried about, rather the performance/stability. I've had some bad experiences with installing different games with different protection systems where they start to CLASH with each other and render any PC useless, regardless of the specs. I already play a lot of single player games on this clean partition on one of my hard drives, so re-installing is not an option. The reason I keep the installs separate for DRM/games with active protective processes eating resources is because if I have a problem with them, I can easily re-install them all and lose nothing. If I installed them all on this partition they would eventually drag down the PC in performance for starters, and like I said they can clash with each other and make diagnosing stuff if problems arise impossible, since most of these are installed at the system level (and like I said reinstalling isn't an option on this partition since I would lose my game saves). As for keylogger protection, I already have Keyscrambler so have no need for anything extra to run. Thanks for explaining what it does for me in good detail though, I appreciate it.
Edited by Am* - 5/12/11 at 11:30am
    
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post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
It wasn't security I was worried about, rather the performance/stability. I've had some bad experiences with installing different games with different protection systems where they start to CLASH with each other and render any PC useless, regardless of the specs. I already play a lot of single player games on this clean partition on one of my hard drives, so re-installing is not an option. The reason I keep the installs separate for DRM/games with active protective processes eating resources is because if I have a problem with them, I can easily re-install them all and lose nothing. If I installed them all on this partition they would eventually drag down the PC in performance for starters, and like I said they can clash with each other and make diagnosing stuff if problems arise impossible, since most of these are installed at the system level (and like I said reinstalling isn't an option on this partition). As for keylogger protection, I already have Keyscrambler so have no need for anything extra to run. Thanks for explaining what it does for me in good detail though, I appreciate it.
Warden is loaded from blizzards servers and manually mapped into wow.exe and it doesn't scan other processes' (it will check for known 'cheating' driver names though), it only scans within wow.exe.

Warden doesn't protect you from keyloggers or malware, only scan.dll (which is NOT warden) runs once at startup which scans for known malware/things such as cheat engine etc.

TL;DR Warden won't interfere with any other protection system.
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post #16 of 24
Anti-cheat and bot blockers, plus the fact you need a valid key with paid up time on it to connect. That's plenty for them.
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post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lahey View Post
...see below...
Not quite true. If I could touch on some of your points...

Quote:
Warden is loaded from blizzards servers and manually mapped into wow.exe
The Warden is not loaded remotely. It is embedded into the game itself, they are one process in the same.

Quote:
and it doesn't scan other processes' (it will check for known 'cheating' driver names though), it only scans within wow.exe.
It most certainly does scan other processes. Like most anti-cheating tools, they are designed to pick up application signatures stored within any process that is interacting with the same memory addresses that the game is using (local memory). The Warden actually did a lot more than that in the past, going as far as picking up when someone was running the game and navigating to a "hacking" website at the same time. (The big one being mmo-owned. Don't go to that site. Really, don't.) That functionality has since been relaxed, but it still does keep an eye on the peripherals.

Quote:
Warden doesn't protect you from keyloggers or malware, only scan.dll (which is NOT warden) runs once at startup which scans for known malware/things such as cheat engine etc.
Again, this is simply not true. It's certainly not the most effective protection, but this is current functionality. If Warden finds a common keylogger installed, or common modules that are working to intercept hardware input, it will block the end-user from logging in, lock the account, flag it, and redirect the user to the website to call support. This is not Warden's primary functionality, but it still does exist.

The primary job of Warden is simply this:
Detect cheating software running in the background.
Detect repeating keyboard/movement patterns.
Flag account and send back (personally non-identifiable) information to Blizzard.

They take all of these flags. Audit them. Then in big sweeps at a time, they drop the hammer. That's how they currently operate with cheaters.
Edited by Plex - 5/12/11 at 11:53am
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post #18 of 24
No DRM.

Blizzard's key and account pay time system work so well there is no need for any software DRM.
    
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post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post
Not quite true. If I could touch on some of your points...

1. The Warden is not loaded remotely. It is embedded into the game itself, they are one process in the same.

2. It most certainly does scan other processes. Like most anti-cheating tools, they are designed to pick up application signatures stored within any process that is interacting with the same memory addresses that the game is using (local memory). The Warden actually did a lot more than that in the past, going as far as picking up when someone was running the game and navigating to a "hacking" website at the same time. (The big one being mmo-owned. Don't go to that site. Really, don't.) That functionality has since been relaxed, but it still does keep an eye on the peripherals.

3. Again, this is simply not true. It's certainly not the most effective protection, but this is current functionality. If Warden finds a common keylogger installed, or common modules that are working to intercept hardware input, it will block the end-user from logging in, lock the account, flag it, and redirect the user to the website to call support. This is not Warden's primary functionality, but it still does exist.

The primary job of Warden is simply this:
Detect cheating software running in the background.
Detect repeating keyboard/movement patterns.
Flag account and send back (personally non-identifiable) information to Blizzard.

They take all of these flags. Audit them. Then in big sweeps at a time, they drop the hammer. That's how they currently operate with cheaters.
1. Yes, the Warden module is downloaded from blizzard servers and mapped into wow.
2. Warden doesn't scan out of process anymore.
3. Again this is Scan.dll which looks for common malware/other crap, NOT Warden, Warden isn't even loaded until you have logged.

I don't know where you get your information..
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post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lahey View Post
1. Yes, the Warden module is downloaded from blizzard servers and mapped into wow.
Excuse me for being blunt, but you don't know what you're talking about. Having something "mapped" onto an executable doesn't make any sense. It's not parallel, it runs within the original process. It is not ran remotely every time you execute the game. I do know what I'm talking about, and I can tell that you really don't. Having been a software engineer for a very large company for quite some time, I can begin to understand this process very well. How about you?

Quote:
2. Warden doesn't scan out of process anymore.
Again, this doesn't make sense. If you're saying it just scans for bad add-ons or something, and that's all the Warden does, you'd be absolutely incorrect. The wow.exe process is constantly referring to addresses in your memory before going to garbage collection to be recycled. Warden can detect any intrusion or outside process that is interacting with the same addresses. The functionality that you're suggesting would be utterly pointless and we'd have hackers running bots all over the place. Well, even more than now, anyway.


Quote:
3. Again this is Scan.dll which looks for common malware/other crap, NOT Warden, Warden isn't even loaded until you have logged.
I'm assuming you read on some thread somewhere about someone who miraculously "defeated Warden" by deleting scan.dll. Hah, don't be silly. That's ridiculous. Yes, that file is related to the process. No, it has absolutely no implication to anything you're trying to make it out to be. You really have no idea exactly what that file does. Neither do I. And that's the point.

Quote:
I don't know where you get your information..
I get it from reading reputable documentation and applying common sense and my field of expertise, which happens to be very related. The question is, where do you get yours? At least it's entertaining.
Edited by Plex - 5/12/11 at 12:30pm
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