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Giving up on Linux for now. - Page 9

post #81 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
No, I was talking about the fact that you get an explicit choice (its in the installer somewhere) to set up a network mirror for your /etc/apt/sources.list so you don't have just the CD as a "source". The package problem that you describe here is due to old unused mirrors still being used (or not setting up a proper mirror). Some official mirrors have been cleaned out but not dropped, lazy maintaining is the problem.

As far as you guys talking about apt-get dist-upgrade, you shouldn't do that. At least unless you get the hang of Debian's dependencies and how to fix bugs in apt you shouldn't ever go above testing (edit: Even then, you might not want too. Definitely don't mix versions unless you are sure you know what you are doing). You only use dist-update when your going from Stable to Testing, Testing to Unstable, and Unstable to? I don't think Experimental has a full set of packages, even so it would be extremely dangerous. Once you are on the version you want you should always use "apt-get upgrade" and leave it at that. I never use dist-upgrade after I've gotten my system to Testing, never!
upgrade
upgrade is used to install the newest versions of all packages
currently installed on the system from the sources enumerated in
/etc/apt/sources.list. Packages currently installed with new
versions available are retrieved and upgraded; under no
circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages
not already installed retrieved and installed. New versions of
currently installed packages that cannot be upgraded without
changing the install status of another package will be left at
their current version. An update must be performed first so that
apt-get knows that new versions of packages are available.


dist-upgrade
dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade,
also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions
of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and
it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the
expense of less important ones if necessary. So, dist-upgrade
command may remove some packages. The /etc/apt/sources.list file
contains a list of locations from which to retrieve desired package
files. See also apt_preferences(5) for a mechanism for overriding
the general settings for individual packages.


both work, dist-upgrade vs upgrade doesnt matter much if you stay in the same branch, youll want to use dist-upgrade switching over to testing though... but yeah i can see it probably causing problems but 99% of the time it wont you might be right, i should just do a normal upgrade... lol i dont really have an opinion either way i guess xD ill wait until my system breaks to have an opinion
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post #82 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by EntTheGod View Post
both work, dist-upgrade vs upgrade doesnt matter much if you stay in the same branch, youll want to use dist-upgrade switching over to testing though... but yeah i can see it probably causing problems but 99% of the time it wont you might be right, i should just do a normal upgrade... lol i dont really have an opinion either way i guess xD ill wait until my system breaks to have an opinion
From what I remember, dist-upgrade will remove files. It tries to update everything to the highest version, regardless if it has to remove packages because they can't meet the dependency requirements. So if you start seeing "KDE removed" and so on, you know there's going to be a lot of work and waiting for ya. Generally you should only use upgrade unless you know that packages won't be removed. [edit] Or the obvious transition. Though if you don't venture into testing/unstable you can (probably) do this command without worry.
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post #83 of 118
If I am going to use an "agressive" upgrade I use Aptitude. aptitude full-upgrade is superior to apt-get dist-upgrade because you can choose not to accept the first upgrade path and get Aptitude to find another way to upgrade without wiping out half your system (there are usually many ways). apt-get doesn't give you this option. You either upgrade or you don't.
    
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post #84 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post
If I am going to use an "agressive" upgrade I use Aptitude. aptitude full-upgrade is superior to apt-get dist-upgrade because you can choose not to accept the first upgrade path and get Aptitude to find another way to upgrade without wiping out half your system (there are usually many ways). apt-get doesn't give you this option. You either upgrade or you don't.
That's smart upgrade, it's been in apt-get for a while. aptitude is more or less obsolete, has been for a while. =(

http://linux.die.net/man/8/apt-get

Code:
dist-upgrade
    dist-upgrade, in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also intelligently handles changing 
dependencies with new versions of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, 
and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense of less important ones if 
necessary. The /etc/apt/sources.list file contains a list of locations from which to retrieve desired 
package files. See also apt_preferences(5) for a mechanism for overriding the general settings for 
individual packages.
Straight from the documentation. Its kind of a recent addition though, initially apt-get was pretty bad but these days it's pretty much just as good (or better) than any alternative. [edit] It still glitches, however they did implement a smart conflict resolution system. [forgot] It's why I say you shouldn't do dist-upgrade unless you know it'll work, occasionally I've seen some problems. Most of them are related to meta-packages, which if you don't have then problems arise less. Meta-packages are innately evil though, or at least I think they are.

[edit] Yeah, me and my terrible editing.... meta-packages can hurt anything though. I hope the evil they brought is a thing of the past but all it takes is one bad maintainer and a botch, there goes your system!
Edited by mushroomboy - 5/16/11 at 6:35pm
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post #85 of 118
Ubuntu is like the windows version of linux, give it a go.

Windows window management - eek!

It's like Atari controller vs mouse+keyboard.
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post #86 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
That's smart upgrade, it's been in apt-get for a while.
I'd prefer to pick the upgrade path myself rather than letting apt-get figure it out for me. The same goes for installing software that causes conflicts. I don't know how long ago that "smart upgrade" addition was made, but as recently as this year I've had aptitude get me out of a dependency problem cleanly when apt-get wanted to remove many things that it shouldn't have needed to.

Now apt-get autoremove is the real devil. That will literally wipe out most of your system if you're not careful. I ran it once knowing that it had listed way more than it should have but since it was a VM it didn't matter. It deleted several old kernels, most of GNOME and anything dependent on it.
Edited by randomizer - 5/16/11 at 10:50pm
    
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post #87 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomizer View Post
I'd prefer to pick the upgrade path myself rather than letting apt-get figure it out for me. The same goes for installing software that causes conflicts. I don't know how long ago that "smart upgrade" addition was made, but as recently as this year I've had aptitude get me out of a dependency problem cleanly when apt-get wanted to remove many things that it shouldn't have needed to.

Now apt-get autoremove is the real devil. That will literally wipe out most of your system if you're not careful. I ran it once knowing that it had listed way more than it should have but since it was a VM it didn't matter. It deleted several old kernels, most of GNOME and anything dependent on it.
Yeah there are a few problems. Honestly I don't use apt-get unless I have only the command line. I prefer synaptic as it has MUCH better capabilities than either apt-get/aptitude. Even though it's back end is apt-get, the added function it gives you is by far greater than anything a Debian based distro could ever want.
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post #88 of 118
Yet Ubuntu got rid of it because it is old! Synaptic still does things that USC can't do, like holding packages or forcing versions.
    
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post #89 of 118
i still use aptitude :/ i was kinda mad it wasnt on ubuntu these days...
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post #90 of 118
I didn't like aptitude - its either gotta be an X-based GUI or a CLI for me...
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