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post #261 of 5029
Quote:
Originally Posted by lb_felipe View Post

Simca I now understand. Thank you.

The Essence has power but it lacks quality by price. Is this true?

Is FiiO E9 the best "worth it" for beyerdynamic DT880/990-600ohm or is there better alternatives (price is not a problem)? Is the beyerdynamic A1 headphones amplifier overkill for it?

To be hooked up on an X-Fi Ti HD, which output should be chosen with an external amp, RCA or P2?

Is an HRT Music Streamer II good for speakers on gaming when I do not want to play using headphones? In this condition, will the X-Fi Ti HD do anything with the audio or will every audio processing be made by DAC drivers with Windows and CPU?

Excuse me for the amount of questions and for my English.

PS: Just out of curiosity, are you a girl?

Basically the STX has the ability to amplify the signal to your headphones. This allows you to hear the music from your headphones.

Without an amplifier, most of the time when you're using 600 ohm headphones the sound will either not be heard or will be so quiet that you won't be able to really listen to it.

Proper headphone amplifiers do more than just make the signal audible. They breathe life into your headphones and allow them to perform optimally. Proper headphone amplifiers will give increased bass performance, may clear up mids on certain headphones and depending on the headphone amp and tube amps used will give the sound a warmer or different sound in general. Often times people like the warmer sound, sometimes they don't. That's why there are so many headphone amplifiers out there that appeal to particular needs.

The HRT Music Streamer II is a very good DAC for speakers. I can't tell you how well they perform for gaming speakers, but I know that gaming with speakers often times isn't as enjoyable as with headphones (at least for FPS games). RPG's and other types of games speakers are very enjoyable.

From my limited experience with external DACs and gaming, I'd say that sound cards have some kind of built in DSP or perhaps the way the circuitry is layed out that makes certain sounds more present than others which allows for gunfire and footsteps to be heard more clearly than with external DACs, even if the DAC on the external is superior. It's an awkward phenomena that I'd really like to learn more about, but have yet to read anything on this.

You'd be surprised how many people don't know the answer to your last question or simply assumed that I was a guy. I thought it was flaringly obvious, but apparently not, lol.
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post #262 of 5029
Dear Simca
Why do you have a Hebrew letter in your user title?
Lulz
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post #263 of 5029
Quote:
Originally Posted by csm725 View Post

Dear Simca
Why do you have a Hebrew letter in your user title?
Lulz

All the better to make you ask silly questions with, my dear.
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post #264 of 5029
wubsmiley.gif
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post #265 of 5029
My personal opinion is that the difference between a $100 DAC and a $1200+ DAC is very slight, if even existent. In my audio setup the key differences were brought about by the headphones first, Amarra second, and DAC third (excluding source files of course). If I had to do it all over again I would probably go with a Mac-compatible USB DAC in the $100-150 range that offered me the functionality I needed.

I also personally believe that the difference between amps is also very slight if even existent. My outboard Peachtree Nova is oftentimes compared favorably to the Eastern Electric MiniDAC as a DAC and the Gilmore Lite as a headphone amp by other users. I think, from a scientific perspective, that all DACs and amplifiers that are well-engineered and measure admirably with regards to frequency response (i.e. flat frequency response between 20Hz-20KHz for DACs and/or amps), distortion and other relevant output figures should sound very similar if not the same. The differences between distortion figures and sonic measurement across these well-engineered DACs and amps are too small to be perceived by the human ear. So above a certain relatively inexpensive threshold, a user should be able to get a consistent level of top-notch quality.

Perceived differences in amplifiers can be brought about by differences in output impedance and the volume levels they can drive certain loads to.

If it truly sounds different inherently then it is either poorly engineered (e.g. with euphonic or pleasant sound in mind rather than fidelity) to introduce distortion into the signal, or it is defective. Tube designs are an example that deliberately introduce distortion into the signal, deluding proponents to believe that they offer a "more analog" or "warmer" sound. Low-distortion, high-fidelity, flat FR designs that measure as perfectly as we can hear are not terribly expensive.

Unfortunately I came across these realizations after I had already drank plenty of the head-fi kool-aid and invested thousands into a music setup (the catharsis came during my speaker journey on AVS). But I do consider the JH13 and Amarra to have been great investments. The Peachtree Nova is OK -- its saving grace is that it does so much (DAC, headphone amp, speaker amp, HT bypass, plenty of inputs/outputs) that the expense wasn't totally unjustified since a cheaper DAC and power amp setup would've probably cost less but also have been much larger. And in that process I would lose the ability to drive more demanding headphones to adequate volume levels.

For any budget I would invest in headphones or speakers first. They truly make the biggest difference IME. A DAC that measures "perfectly" (as far as we can hear) can be had for $100-150 easily.
Edited by friend'scatdied - 11/29/11 at 10:18am
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post #266 of 5029
I'm an electronica music lover, and I'm debating between the Ultrasone HFI-580's and the PRO 550's.

What are you thoughts on these two headphones?
post #267 of 5029
They have almost the same amount of bass. I'd say the Pro 550s are slightly more tamed in terms of overall bass, but the Pro 550s offer a much wider sound stage. Perform, imo, better for more types of music. I think the 580s, simply for electronica, drum and bass and similar bassy kinds of music is the better headphones especially since it's 40+ dollars cheaper.
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post #268 of 5029
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

[snip]

If it truly sounds different inherently then it is either poorly engineered (e.g. with euphonic or pleasant sound in mind rather than fidelity) to introduce distortion into the signal, or it is defective. Tube designs are an example that deliberately introduce distortion into the signal, deluding proponents to believe that they offer a "more analog" or "warmer" sound. Low-distortion, high-fidelity, flat FR designs that measure as perfectly as we can hear are not terribly expensive. [snip]

In general I agree with the whole post except for the part I bolded. I would say that it's engineered or designed to have lower fidelity, not that it's necessarily poorly engineered (though in practice, it's maybe insulting to engineers to call some of these audiophile boutique products as "engineered" at all, considering the design process). Actually, there are some tube designs that are extremely accurate. It just takes a lot of work and is not at all worth the cost from a price/performance perspective in most audio playback applications. But most tube designs people are looking at are like single-ended triode stuff that have very low fidelity on purpose.

The key idea is that it doesn't take a lot of money to end up with a decent design that is audibly identical (to humans listening, who don't know which one is which) to a hypothetical device of perfect fidelity.
post #269 of 5029
Hi Simca -

Looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into this thread and I certainly appreciate the effort. I've started up my own thread but wasn't exactly satisfied with the responses I've got so far, so I hope you wouldn't mind addressed a concern of mine regarding your list.

I'm looking to purchase a DAC/Soundcard(with built-in amp) or separate headphone receiver. I can't decide between the FiiO E7/E9 combo(because I want the ability to someday connect a 5.1, or 2.1 system to my PC and I'm not entirely sure the E7 will allow me to do that), or an HT Omega Claro Halo with a rated 600ohms internal amp... looking for versatility. Which would you recommend for below 250?

In the headphone arena, I'm looking for something closed-back as the point I'm looking for good headphones is to isolate both outgoing and incoming noise. Something around or below 250 would be great. Currently, I'm looking at the DT770, the Denon AH-D2000(Despite limited availability and prices close to 350 now), the Ultrasone 750 or the Shure 940. I do some gaming, but music quality is what matters most, and I listen to a lot of different stuff, but mostly trance, house, and rock. Would you have any specific recommendations on a great set-up in the 500 dollar area? I'm a bit worried the on-board amp on the Claro Halo won't properly power the headphones I've researched, but I'm open to suggestions. It seems the E7/E9 isn't exactly open to a 5.1 set-up in the future, and if purchasing an internal sound card with 5.1 processing and a separate headphone amp will save headache in the future, I'm open for that.

Thanks for your time.
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post #270 of 5029
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-Nation View Post

Hi Simca -

Looks like you've put a lot of time and effort into this thread and I certainly appreciate the effort. I've started up my own thread but wasn't exactly satisfied with the responses I've got so far, so I hope you wouldn't mind addressed a concern of mine regarding your list.

I'm looking to purchase a DAC/Soundcard(with built-in amp) or separate headphone receiver. I can't decide between the FiiO E7/E9 combo(because I want the ability to someday connect a 5.1, or 2.1 system to my PC and I'm not entirely sure the E7 will allow me to do that), or an HT Omega Claro Halo with a rated 600ohms internal amp... looking for versatility. Which would you recommend for below 250?

In the headphone arena, I'm looking for something closed-back as the point I'm looking for good headphones is to isolate both outgoing and incoming noise. Something around or below 250 would be great. Currently, I'm looking at the DT770, the Denon AH-D2000(Despite limited availability and prices close to 350 now), the Ultrasone 750 or the Shure 940. I do some gaming, but music quality is what matters most, and I listen to a lot of different stuff, but mostly trance, house, and rock. Would you have any specific recommendations on a great set-up in the 500 dollar area? I'm a bit worried the on-board amp on the Claro Halo won't properly power the headphones I've researched, but I'm open to suggestions. It seems the E7/E9 isn't exactly open to a 5.1 set-up in the future, and if purchasing an internal sound card with 5.1 processing and a separate headphone amp will save headache in the future, I'm open for that.

Thanks for your time.

For now you should go with the e9 as your amplifier. I would personally go with a different DAC than the e7. I don't care for the "combo" people go with. That's sort of silly and lazy and people only do it cuz "they go together" despite the e7 actually not being that great of a DAC.

The amp on that sound card is actually weaker than the one on the STX and I don't even like the STX's amp, which is why I'm telling you to go for the e9 instead.

I would cross off DT770s from your list if you like rock. Rock doesn't sound great on DT770s. Denons are a better choice, but isolation and leakage wise, they still do a fair amount. The Sennheiser HD25-1 II's are great for isolation and bass and overall performance. They're not often recommended because usually people don't care for isolation. They also don't require heavy ampage which is another reason to go with them, but since you're buying the e9, that's not really a problem.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Added a Hidden Gems section where I'll be putting headphones that have received great praise and are easily worth 5x+ what they're going for. In this list are currently Fostex T50RPs and Panasonica RPHTF600s.

I also increased the size of section titles.
Edited by Simca - 11/30/11 at 6:43am
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