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[Ars] Why we've reached the end of the camera megapixel race - Page 3

post #21 of 40
Hmm, since there seems to be some pretty knowledgeable people 'round here, how about cmos vs ccd? and if making the image sensor bigger improves image quality, how are sensor manufacturers gonna reduce cost while maintaining quality? reducing transistor size also reduces sensitivity right? If they went from say, 90nm to 40nm and instead of making the sensor smaller they just increased transistors, would quality improve or degrade? I was thinking maybe they could increase transistors and then average the data of groups of them to improve quality, maybe have some pixels sensitive to UV, other to IR, ETC.
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post #22 of 40
The one thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is that IQ aside; having 20MP allows for tighter cropping in post production. Meaning that the final composition can be tweaked with greater ease.

In a pinch if I am shooting an action scene I concentrate more on the technical details (aperture, lighting, shutter speed) then I do on the composition of the photo. Having 20MP to work with is great to take an image and crop it after the fact w/out missing the shot while worrying about the composition. It's also great when your shooting a scene and find "bonus" details in the background that are worthy of their own framing.

I do agree however that my old Canon 20D was just as capable a shooter as my 7D for anything up to 8x10.

I would prefer to see more focus on IQ, Noise , and exposure controls rather then more pixels also.

Even burst speeds are now getting a bit ridiculous ; my 7D shoots 8FPS... its starting to sound like a machine gun in high speed mode lol.
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post #23 of 40
I definitely think megapixels still matter, at least when dealing with camera phones with no physical zoom capabilities. Same thing Shtsh00ttr says applies to regular folks; I don't care about setting this or that, I just want to whip out my phone, take a picture, and deal with cropping/zooming latter.
    
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post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShtSh00ttr View Post
The one thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is that IQ aside; having 20MP allows for tighter cropping in post production. Meaning that the final composition can be tweaked with greater ease.
True, it also depends what you're using the camera for too though. Some uses more on the utilitarian side benefit greatly from having as many mp's as you could afford.
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post #25 of 40
who wouldnt take a camera with more megapixels?
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post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
In addition, even professionals very rarely print at anything higher than 300ppi, which on an 8x10 sheet comes out to about 6MP.
I might have misunderstood the calculation, so please correct me if I am wrong

8"x10" = 80 square inches
300ppi = 300 pixels per inch
300 x 300 = 90000 pixels per square inch
therfore:
80 x 90000 = 7200000 Pixels = 7.2MegaPixels

That's 7.2MP not 6MP? Where did I go wrong with that calculation?

Edit" Also, that is assuming professional photographers only take photos to suit 8x10. Also consider all the magazine and newspaper photographers who need to ensure photos are 300dpi at full magazine size (for front coevers and full page spreads etc) - with magazine sizes ranging from 4.5"x6.5" to 11"x17" (tabloid) to large format 14"x22".

And at the largest size, to ensure 300dpi, you'd need almost 28MP
Edited by un-nefer - 5/16/11 at 8:32am
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post #27 of 40
I want MOAR m-pees.
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post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post
Sigh. Only if you never print it out.

If you actually print, we still have a long, long, long way to go. We need to get larger sensors with lower noise and higher dynamic range.

But you need more pixels to interpret small changes in range.

If you have only 100 pixels across picture of a object that transitions from complete black to complete white, each pixel would only be able to show 1% of light change per pixel. If you do it at 200 pixel, each would be .5% of change. 400 would be .25% of change.

You need more pixels to capture dynamic range of film, about 50-100 MP.

So even though the number of pixels should not be considered until you clearly like the printed results of a camera, we are not at the end of the pixel race. We will always need more pixels to display the full dynamic range that film can currently do.

The current 20MP sensors just are not large enough to fully display a full dynamic range of film, let alone of the same flexibility as film.
MPs has nothing to do with dynamic range. If you had a camera that took images 2 pixels across, but could shoot 32bit depth and extrapolate real world intensity values (ie: the sun is "100% white" in a digital camera picture, but in reality it's more like 5000% white...we're just limited by what cameras can capture at once) then despite having 0.000002 megapixels, it would have a MUCH higher dynamic range than a camera with 20,000 megapixels and shooting 8 or 12bit depth.

Megapixels and dynamic range have NOTHING to do with each other.

I work in visual effects, we render all CG elements in 32bit floating point format. They have infinite dynamic range whether it's a 200 x 100 pixel preview or a 4096 x 2048 final output for IMAX or whatever.
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post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-nefer View Post
I might have misunderstood the calculation, so please correct me if I am wrong

8"x10" = 80 square inches
300ppi = 300 pixels per inch
300 x 300 = 90000 pixels per square inch
therfore:
80 x 90000 = 7200000 Pixels = 7.2MegaPixels

That's 7.2MP not 6MP? Where did I go wrong with that calculation?

Edit" Also, that is assuming professional photographers only take photos to suit 8x10. Also consider all the magazine and newspaper photographers who need to ensure photos are 300dpi at full magazine size (for front coevers and full page spreads etc) - with magazine sizes ranging from 4.5"x6.5" to 11"x17" (tabloid) to large format 14"x22".

And at the largest size, to ensure 300dpi, you'd need almost 28MP
You're right it's 7.2 (I was just figuring off the top of my head), but I'm not talking about what a Pro needs, I'm talking about consumers. That's what this whole debate is about. Noone is going to say that pros can't use the resolution, because they can. And no consumer needs to print a 14"x22" off of a pocket camera.

And even IF you had 28MP in a pocket camera sensor, there would be so much noise it would look like total crap, to the point where the pixelation is actually preferable.
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post #30 of 40
I do remember reading once where it was said that to equal even the cheapest film,you'd need a 24 MP camera.
I still like my Sony DSC F828.
Works fine for what I do.
It's too much for my computer screen though.
I do wonder how quantum film technology will affect future cameras?
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