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[JustinTV] SWTOR Beta gameplay footage - Page 10

post #91 of 145
The problem isn't removing the grind, the problem is keeping subscriptions without it.

Also, are people really complaining about bonus quests that just give XP for what you would have done to complete other quests anyways? That 30 droid bonus quest was part of a HEROIC aka group quest that he could barely get through the front door, he had no chance of ever completing the main quest alone, though obviously he could keep farming the door mobs to get the 30 kills.
Edited by -Apocalypse- - 7/29/11 at 8:00pm
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post #92 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narzon View Post
The idea that you can feasibly have hundreds of hours of game-play without any grinding is ludicrous.
I can't say that's necessarily true. Though I agree that this is probably the best model we have now, but what if something else comes about that challenges it? It can happen, and when it does, we'll say the same thing about this new model. Is it ludicrous to say that it's possible, and just that no one's thought of it yet? I'm not so sure. I'd like to think that it isn't. I'd like to think there's something new that can take the idea of having a multitude of players all interacting at once in order to overcome certain challenges that doesn't involve something that can be deemed a grind. I know Rift tried to solve this issue with it's titular events sprinkled throughout the game world, and I do think it's a pretty nifty idea, but even those can get aggravating and mundane.

I think the heart of the issue is whether or not we associate grind with hardcore. I don't think it has to be one and the same. I think that there are ways to challenge players in ways appropriate to their respective levels without having to do the same thing over and over again to do so. There also has to be a way to do that without creating a so called "ending", which all MMO players/developers dread.

Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that one day game developers will achieve this. And when they do, it'll be a glorious day.
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post #93 of 145
Another WoW clone. When are game devs gonna learn to think outside the WoW-box?
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post #94 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bckai View Post
I can't say that's necessarily true. ...
Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that one day game developers will achieve this. And when they do, it'll be a glorious day.
The challenge isn't that someone doesn't have the ideas. The challenge is somehow keeping an acceptable amount of content for the players. Grinds are good, it's the only way to even approach .5/1 player time/dev time. The closer the end is, the more content there has to be, and by extension the more content has to be created in the same amount of time. MMO developers are already borderline slaves to their job, and without a substantial increase in game editor capability, it's just not feasible to remove the grind in an MMO and have it be wildly successful. Yeah, people say oh look at LOTRO it did fine as FTP, everything should go that way. Financially, yes (ignoring the fact that it had already made back it's small development budget in the 3 years prior and it was only upkeep cost taking away from profits post-ftp). As a former LOTRO player, I can tell you FTP ruined that game even if it saved it financially. The quality of the game and community both plummeted after FTP.
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post #95 of 145
Graphics are way better then expected.
post #96 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Graphics are way better then expected.
REally? I thought they kind of looked like poo. I'm used to playing WoW anyway and those graphics are really dated, so I guess the graphics won't matter to me that much.


Anyway.....DO WANT!!
post #97 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolsmasher View Post
REally? I thought they kind of looked like poo. I'm used to playing WoW anyway and those graphics are really dated, so I guess the graphics won't matter to me that much.


Anyway.....DO WANT!!
http://www.swtor.com/media/screens/sith-sorcerer-0
looks like poo to you? Dude, I think you might be a golden goose...

The guy in the beta is not playing on high settings. I find it humorous that this guy's next video listed is "No longer streaming swtor, someone ruined it for everyone." The hilarious part is the penalty for non-minor NDA breaches is a lifetime ban of your Name/IP/mac address from TOR. Yeah that's avoidable, but 9/10 people won't know how to avoid it.
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post #98 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Microsis View Post
Another WoW clone. When are game devs gonna learn to think outside the WoW-box?
isnt every MMO, basically a clone of ultima online?

when are most OCN gamers gonna think outside the cliche box?



on topic, so want this..
post #99 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3skyline View Post
isnt every MMO, basically a clone of ultima online?
Yeah, and that isn't a good thing.
    
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post #100 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post
The challenge isn't that someone doesn't have the ideas. The challenge is somehow keeping an acceptable amount of content for the players. Grinds are good, it's the only way to even approach .5/1 player time/dev time. The closer the end is, the more content there has to be, and by extension the more content has to be created in the same amount of time. MMO developers are already borderline slaves to their job, and without a substantial increase in game editor capability, it's just not feasible to remove the grind in an MMO and have it be wildly successful. Yeah, people say oh look at LOTRO it did fine as FTP, everything should go that way. Financially, yes (ignoring the fact that it had already made back it's small development budget in the 3 years prior and it was only upkeep cost taking away from profits post-ftp). As a former LOTRO player, I can tell you FTP ruined that game even if it saved it financially. The quality of the game and community both plummeted after FTP.
I think you are right. Grind, unfortunately, is the only economically feasible way for a developer to make money in order to create more content. It's too bad, though.

At the same time, I think that Blizzard's figured it out and implemented it as best as possible. But what if there's another model out there, something that's dynamic, fluid, and continuously augmented either by developers, players, or both? I think it could happen. Maybe not soon, but eventually. The only thing that comes to mind, is Minecraft, but with certain elements that are much more focused, and others that are just as free form, and maybe even more so. It definitely has be more refined than something like Minecraft, though that game is wildly successful as it is.

I don't know. I'm not a game developer, and I don't profess to be one, but I am an optimist, and I think there's gotta be something on the horizon that will change the way we think about MMOs and games in general.
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