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First time builder - Advice on my 2500K build? - Page 3

post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainking View Post
I said it was a better buy for him, not that it was outright better. Especially if he doesn't live near a fry's or microcenter (like me).

I feel you on the not living anywhere close to a computer store! Thank god for Super Saver Shipping lol. Maybe you could get a price match.

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post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedude721 View Post
I'm not arguing the performance increase of an SSD! Of course it will boost his entire experience, I am arguing your previous claim that the 2500k is better! Show me a real world result that can dispute what I have provided for you.
Take a look at this: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/t...2100-tested/20

I count 5 games that do better on an i5. And with more overclocking room over a 2600K, in that REAL WORLD benchmark, the i5 would beat the i7 in almost all of those if overclocked higher (easy) and with a longer life (less volts). OH. And more stable. HT can cause instability.

I'm giving this guy advice for sheer performance. He asked about an SSD and I said he should go with the 2500K and put the extra money towards an SSD.
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post #23 of 34
I love that we live in portions of the world where we can argue over several FPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodlebro View Post
overclocked higher (easy) and with a longer life (less volts). OH. And more stable. HT can cause instability.
Got a source for this claim? Data from the Sandy Stable club and F@H SB PPD page seems to argue that it varies based on chip. Please don't link some B2 stepping reviews since all of those boards and CPU batches are gone, thanks!

While I am disputing this portion of your claim, I do agree with the general notion that the 2500K/SSD combo would yield more real world benefits than a 2600K in most scenarios.
Edited by Velathawen - 5/16/11 at 1:10am
post #24 of 34
You kill me. 4/10 games tested it beats the i7. Dude seriously give it up. Is the 2500k a better buy for someone on a budget? Yes. Better? Nope. The majority of your post is yet again unsubstantiated.
Edited by firedude721 - 5/16/11 at 2:33am
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post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedude721 View Post
You kill me. 4/10 games tested it beats the i7. Dude seriously give it up. It's not faster. Is it a better buy for someone on a budget? Yes. Better? Nope. The majority of your post is yet again unsubstantiated.
You asked for one example, I gave you five.

You can't go off of benchmarks. Simple as that.
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post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velathawen View Post
I love that we live in portions of the world where we can argue over several FPS



Got a source for this claim? Data from the Sandy Stable club and F@H SB PPD page seems to argue that it varies based on chip. Please don't link some B2 stepping reviews since all of those boards and CPU batches are gone, thanks!

While I am disputing this portion of your claim, I do agree with the general notion that the 2500K/SSD combo would yield more real world benefits than a 2600K in most scenarios.
Haha hey man, I'm the one trying to justify that a few small gains in real world scenarios isn't worth the extra moula. This other person is thinking that I'm arguing that the 2500K is better overall. I never once said that. I was just arguing that the OP would see better performance/$ ratio with a 2500K + SSD or even simply a 2500K.

Hyperthreading requires a little more voltage out of the processor, and numerous accounts explain that turning it off can cause instability at higher clocks. So you need more voltage than you would over a 2500K chip to get the same clocks. Most people stay within the limit and this is why we see more 2600K OCers stopping at a safe point, lower than 2500K's safe limit. It's definitely feasible to get just as high of a clock on a 2600K, but since you need more voltage, the life of the chip decreases.

So sure, benchmarks may say one thing, but that's the point. Only in benchmarking tools do you see amazing gains, yet using real world applications, you won't see such high gains. We can't be ignorant and just go off of one test. A multi-threaded program like PPro CS5 is best run using many threads, however it isn't completely built around that aspect. How else do you think the companies who create 3D Mark or other paid benchmarking tools make money? Not saying it's a conspiracy and the hardware designers have a deal with these companies, but these apps are coded specifically to test every part of the processor for a complete rating, how many programs are coded well enough to really show serious gains? Not that many given the small gains in different apps.
Edited by Doodlebro - 5/16/11 at 1:47am
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post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech210 View Post

1. Is the extra 20-40 dollars for a modular PSU worth it?
2. Is 600W a good amount of wattage for my usecase?
3. Is there a cheaper display available with similar performance?
4. Is a $100 60gb SSD drive upgrade something worth considering? If so, is 60gb enough for a boot and common applications?
5. Are there any great guides to assembling the parts? (It is my first time)
6. With the recent release of the Z68 chipset, is now a good time to buy a PC?

Thanks so much for your help!
1. It helps with cable management and reduces clutter, helping airflow.
2. 600W is good but that psu is no good. Get a Corsair tx650 v2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-020-_-Product or hx650 v2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-012-_-Productif you want modular. Also if you want to Crossfire in the future consider getting a 750watt psu but maybe 650w is enough.
3. I don't know about cheaper but this Dell is alot better (IPS display) for not that much more. http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...n&sku=320-9270
4. Worth it if you need faster load/boot up times, and yes 60gb is enough unless you install games on there.
5. Let me find one....
6. If you can get the z68 for around what a p67 is then yes. No if you want to wait for Bulldozer for prices to potentially drop.
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post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedude721 View Post
You kill me. 4/10 games tested it beats the i7. Dude seriously give it up. It's not faster. Is it a better buy for someone on a budget? Yes. Better? Nope. The majority of your post is yet again unsubstantiated.
so it's 10% better for 50% more? (disregarding sale price)

hardly seems worth it for price/perf.
post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodlebro View Post
Haha hey man, I'm the one trying to justify that a few small gains in real world scenarios isn't worth the extra moula. This other person is thinking that I'm arguing that the 2500K is better overall. I never once said that. I was just arguing that the OP would see better performance/$ ratio with a 2500K + SSD or even simply a 2500K.

Hyperthreading requires a little more voltage out of the processor, and numerous accounts explain that turning it off can cause instability at higher clocks. So you need more voltage than you would over a 2500K chip to get the same clocks. Most people stay within the limit and this is why we see more 2600K OCers stopping at a safe point, lower than 2500K's safe limit. It's definitely feasible to get just as high of a clock on a 2600K, but since you need more voltage, the life of the chip decreases.
Haha I know, I was agreeing with your statement that 2500K is sufficient in most situations for gaming, not that it is a superior processor. I love my 2600K, but I have been getting into rendering, and I'm kind of a folding junkie. These things definitely let me see the difference vs a standard 2500K.

I cited the SB 24/7 Stable and F@H PPD threads because the data there shows the voltage requirements all seem to fall within the same range with very low variance. The data there suggests more of a "YMMV" type situation than "2600K consistently requires more voltage because of HT". That's the reason I was curious about what data you were looking at.

Edit -

Since I haven't really added anything of value to the thread yet:

I would suggest OP picking up an aftermarket cooler of some sort. It doesn't have to be top of the line like a D14/SA, but the stock cooler is pretty mediocre. With summer coming around, your CPU is going to get pretty toasty even at stock speeds with stock paste.

If you end up going with the SSD route, here is a cheap 2TB drive for backups and media files


This PSU is better and cheaper. TX650 V2 for $80 after MIR!

Edited by Velathawen - 5/16/11 at 2:22am
post #30 of 34
Let's recall software when multiple cores came out. At that time nothing really utilized the extra cores other than benchmarks. Now there are multiple applications that use more than one core. Were the people that chose to opt for multiple cores remiss? Not likely because today they can utilize the new software. I will say the same for hyperthreading. The programs that are used today will not be the same in a year. I'll likely have my processor for about two years and the 2600k offers more for the long run. While games at present see nearly equal results between the 2500k and the 2600k at present, future games and software my have programing that will actually utilize the full potential of hyperthreading and more cores.

On a budget, I won't argue with anyone about the 2500k being more bang for your buck. He asked for suggestions and I am giving one based on what I use, what I have read, and what others have said.

Real world for one person is likely different from another. I understand what you are saying about benchmarks. While they don't represent software today, they do give insight for software tomorrow. I frequently use professional software such as Adobe, and the 2600k is noticeably quicker with this software especially with encoding. So for me there is a difference and it was worth the price. I don't know what all he plans to do, or will do in the future. Simply sharing my experience with the two processors.

@Ishinomori - 10% better is a poor estimate, and 50% is very exaggerated. With the sale, the difference in price is 10%. Without the sale, the difference is about 29% (Based of Amazon.com's prices at present)
Edited by firedude721 - 5/16/11 at 2:34am
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