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post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
Lol you are not serious.
Yamaha RX-V371 Surround Receiver goes for the same price.
STX stereo Dac meaning what 24bit/192 thru 2 channels right?
yamaha 24bit/192 thru all 5 channels.
Amplifier ->STX pft headphones ain't speakers nor does that card come close to pushing out 100w per channel.
The yamaha slaughter the STX in every possible way.
I'm very serious. I'd love to see some proof of your claims.

First off, the STX supports 7.1 channels, just like the Yamaha. Its DAC also does 24/192 (largely irrelevant, most music is recorded at 16/44.1 anyways). Now, if I'm deciphering your sentence correctly you're comparing the output power of a soundcard to an integrated amplifier? Of course the STX won't do 100/w ch - its a soundcard, not an amplifier (neither will the Yamaha for that matter ). If I wanted to drive speakers I'd buy an amp - your point is completely irrelevant. And, you can get a lot more fidelity for a lot less with headphones than speakers. But again, this point is irrelevant to the performance of the DAC in each case. So let's look at things we can compare.


THD: STX .0003% Yamaha .06% STX .001% headphone out Yamaha .9% driving speakers
SNR: STX 124dB Yamaha 98dB
post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman23 View Post
I'm very serious. I'd love to see some proof of your claims.

First off, the STX supports 7.1 channels, just like the Yamaha. Its DAC also does 24/192 (largely irrelevant, most music is recorded at 16/44.1 anyways). Now, if I'm deciphering your sentence correctly you're comparing the output power of a soundcard to an integrated amplifier? Of course the STX won't do 100/w ch - its a soundcard, not an amplifier (neither will the Yamaha for that matter ). If I wanted to drive speakers I'd buy an amp - your point is completely irrelevant. And, you can get a lot more fidelity for a lot less with headphones than speakers. But again, this point is irrelevant to the performance of the DAC in each case. So let's look at things we can compare.


THD: STX .0003% Yamaha .06% STX .001% headphone out Yamaha .9% driving speakers
SNR: STX 124dB Yamaha 98dB
In fairness, CD audio for example is usually only 100dB SNR anyway....and any harmonic distortion you get out of your speakers at moderately loud levels will probably be greater than what is inside your electronic systems anyways.
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post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
In fairness, CD audio for example is usually only 100dB SNR anyway....and any harmonic distortion you get out of your speakers at moderately loud levels will probably be greater than what is inside your electronic systems anyways.
I believe you're thinking of dynamic range (96dB for CD)? I have never seen SNR applied to an audio format. And I don't disagree that the transducer will impart more distortion than the DAC itself, however, I'm interested in comparing the DACs and objective measurements are the only way we can truly compare them over the internet without listening. He said the Yamaha "slaughters" the STX, and it is clear by technical measurements at the very least, the Yamaha does not in fact beat the STX in a single category (in regards to the DAC section).
post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman23 View Post
I'm very serious. I'd love to see some proof of your claims. First off, the STX supports 7.1 channels, just like the Yamaha. Its DAC also does 24/192 (largely irrelevant, most music is recorded at 16/44.1 anyways). Now, if I'm deciphering your sentence correctly you're comparing the output power of a soundcard to an integrated amplifier? Of course the STX won't do 100/w ch - its a soundcard, not an amplifier (neither will the Yamaha for that matter ). If I wanted to drive speakers I'd buy an amp - your point is completely irrelevant. And, you can get a lot more fidelity for a lot less with headphones than speakers. But again, this point is irrelevant to the performance of the DAC in each case. So let's look at things we can compare. THD: STX .0003% Yamaha .06% STX .001% headphone out Yamaha .9% driving speakersSNR: STX 124dB Yamaha 98dB
well what did I say? For music? I believe so. First of you compared the pricing.Both the same price. Now your talking about buying a amp if you want to drive what? That the takes your cost to what to get the same performance. Cmon headphones? With music. What does headphones make music sound better than on a set of speakers? That headphone out of that card isn't it rated 115 snr? Those are measurements done in an optimal environment, not inside your machine! What that means is that you'll start hearing the noise louder than the intended audio signal as it gets that quiet. Btw those Dac specs you pulled whats the name of the Dacs ? STX got 2 from different manufacturers. Just to show you another eye candy specification. 24bit/192 stereo? What's the use then. Only dvd content you'll find 24bit which is multichannel. So what's the use of that spec on there. Another thing true measurement is done with continuous Power / Channel from 20Hz to 20KHz into 8/4 ohm loads for at least two channels driven. SNR figures at full power and one watt. Not percentages claimed by manufacturers.
post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
What does headphones make music sound better than on a set of speakers? That headphone out of that card isn't it rated 115 snr? Those are measurements done in an optimal environment, not inside your machine! What that means is that you'll start hearing the noise louder than the intended audio signal as it gets that quiet. Btw those Dac specs you pulled whats the name of the Dacs ? STX got 2 from different manufacturers.
Oh rly....

1) Headphones offer isolation and 'intimacy' versus speakers and in the lower price ranges, offer better quality sound quality for the price.

2) Can you please stop letting your donkey do the talking for you?
There is a thing called RMAA which measures audio equipment objectively. The measured specs are actually pretty close to DAC chip manufacturer specs. Also clue up on your terms and know the difference between a DAC chip and opamps and how they relate to one another. Basic electrical engineering. You're confusing DAC chips for opamps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
just to show you another eye candy specification. 24bit/192 stereo? What's the use then. Only dvd content you'll find 24bit which is multichannel. So what's the use of that spec on there.
It's quoting the DAC chip specs which means it capable of 24 bit / 192 kHz upsampling but real practical use for it is none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
Another thing true measurement is done with continuous Power / Channel from 20Hz to 20KHz into 8/4 ohm loads for at least two channels driven. SNR figures at full power and one watt. Not percentages claimed by manufacturers.
It's two ways to express the same thing....

Sup: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

Honestly, getting tired of correcting you over and over again.
post #46 of 52
Thank you Kiwi.

He posts the same information he has formulated over and over again, here and in the [H] forums. I get tired of it.
post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
well what did I say? For music? I believe so. First of you compared the pricing.Both the same price. Now your talking about buying a amp if you want to drive what? That the takes your cost to what to get the same performance. Cmon headphones? With music. What does headphones make music sound better than on a set of speakers? That headphone out of that card isn't it rated 115 snr? Those are measurements done in an optimal environment, not inside your machine! What that means is that you'll start hearing the noise louder than the intended audio signal as it gets that quiet. Btw those Dac specs you pulled whats the name of the Dacs ? STX got 2 from different manufacturers. Just to show you another eye candy specification. 24bit/192 stereo? What's the use then. Only dvd content you'll find 24bit which is multichannel. So what's the use of that spec on there. Another thing true measurement is done with continuous Power / Channel from 20Hz to 20KHz into 8/4 ohm loads for at least two channels driven. SNR figures at full power and one watt. Not percentages claimed by manufacturers.
I don't even know why I'm replying to this incoherent ramble but I'll try. Ok, you said music. And? Both can definitely be used for music

I never said anything about pricing, of course you will get more features with the receiver. I'm not arguing that point, so I don't know why you are.

I also never said headphones make music sound better. However, in the sub ~$500 you will probably get farther than a speaker (for the most part)- speakers simply cost much more to make well. But this is irrelevant as the topic is THE PERFORMANCE OF THE DACS.

The headphone out is rated at 110dB SNR - still quite a bit better than the Yamaha. You don't think the Yamaha specifications are done in an optimal environment? Think again bud. One of the main purposes of a sound card is to separate from internal noise - and I'm sure many here can comment on the noise free output of the STX.

I am well aware that 24/192 is fairly useless with today's audio formats - I SAID THAT IN MY FIRST POST. You were the one who used it as an argument as to why the Yamaha was good.

Please put some thought into your posts and stop misleading those asking for advice with completely false and unintelligible information.
post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post
Oh rly....

1) Headphones offer isolation and 'intimacy' versus speakers and in the lower price ranges, offer better quality sound quality for the price.

2) Can you please stop letting your donkey do the talking for you?
There is a thing called RMAA which measures audio equipment objectively. The measured specs are actually pretty close to DAC chip manufacturer specs. Also clue up on your terms and know the difference between a DAC chip and opamps and how they relate to one another. Basic electrical engineering. You're confusing DAC chips for opamps.




It's quoting the DAC chip specs which means it capable of 24 bit / 192 kHz upsampling but real practical use for it is none.



It's two ways to express the same thing....

Sup: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

Honestly, getting tired of correcting you over and over again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post
1) Headphones offer isolation and 'intimacy' versus speakers and in the lower price ranges, offer better quality sound quality for the price.
BS! its sounds better to you on your music on your sound card. So everyone loves the same type of music you listen to and all types of music will sound better on headphones? Prices have nothing to do with quality of speakers. More money does not always guarantee better performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post
2) Can you please stop letting your donkey do the talking for you?
There is a thing called RMAA which measures audio equipment objectively. The measured specs are actually pretty close to DAC chip manufacturer specs. Also clue up on your terms and know the difference between a DAC chip and opamps and how they relate to one another. Basic electrical engineering. You're confusing DAC chips for opamps.
Donkey? Is that how the voices in your head sounds like
If your under the believe manufacturers specs are close to what it produce then you are lost really. The audio industry is full of bs, leading to common misconceptions by consumers, and thus marketing opportunities by manufacturers. Additionally, the unknowing consumer tends to make their own assumptions, not based on engineering principals, or logical assumptions for that matter, but on their ideas as to what they perceive as right from wrong from the propaganda printed on sales literature or spewed by sales people. Your part of that if you believe that really.
Who's talking about a OPS amp?
Please go read my first reply in the post. You are jumping in the middle of something without reading original post and whats the discussion is all about

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post
It's quoting the DAC chip specs which means it capable of 24 bit / 192 kHz upsampling but real practical use for it is none.
Oh really yet you are using the snr values to compare Dacs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post
It's two ways to express the same thing....

Sup: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm
And?

Theres a difference between correcting someone and trying to force misguided believes onto someone. You clearly haven't read my first reply in this post. The yapping on about headphones clearly shows it. Please go read it before rubbing your ego all over.
Edited by Spooony - 5/18/11 at 11:22am
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kill2Fill View Post
What are sound cards and what are they used for?

Do they attach to like huge speakers?
Well, my creative soundcard is used for gaming - otherwise I would not hear anything - it is hooked up through an amp to my headphones.
If I did not have this card, I would not be able to hear sounds in-game

And, my Tascam (2xIO) and Terratec (8xIO) are used for recording Live-Audio input from multiple sources - that is to say Guitar, vocal-mic, Bass, electric fiddle and a plethora of MIDI gear. - These are hooked up to my reference monitors, which are basically speakers with a nice, true and flat response
If I did not have my Tascam and/or Terratec it would be impossible for me to record the music I write and achieve "studio-quality" - Creative cards (gaming/music playing) are utterly crap for that sort of work.
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post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony View Post
BS! its sounds better to you on your music on your sound card. So everyone loves the same type of music you listen to and all types of music will sound better on headphones? Prices have nothing to do with quality of speakers. More money does not always guarantee better performance.
Nowhere did he say any of that. Prices have nothing to do with speakers huh? So $40 desktop speakers from walmart are going to sound as good as a pair of tower speakers from Focal, B&W, etc etc? No one said more money always = better performance. Once again you've fabricated an entire argument, and thrown in absolutely fasle and ignorant "facts".

Quote:
Donkey? Is that how the voices in your head sounds like
If your under the believe manufacturers specs are close to what it produce then you are lost really. The audio industry is full of bs, leading to common misconceptions by consumers, and thus marketing opportunities by manufacturers. Additionally, the unknowing consumer tends to make their own assumptions, not based on engineering principals, or logical assumptions for that matter, but on their ideas as to what they perceive as right from wrong from the propaganda printed on sales literature or spewed by sales people. Your part of that if you believe that really.
This from the guy using 24/192 playback as an argument as to why the Yamahe receiver was better . Get your story straight man.

Quote:
Oh really yet you are using the snr values to compare Dacs.
Once again you prove you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. SNR has nothing to do with sample rate. Nor did kiwi say there was.

Quote:
Theres a difference between correcting someone and trying to force misguided believes onto someone. You clearly haven't read my first reply in this post. The yapping on about headphones clearly shows it. Please go read it before rubbing your ego all over.
You're the only one who beliefs are misguided here.

Quote:
You clearly haven't read my first reply in this post. The yapping on about headphones clearly shows it. Please go read it before rubbing your ego all over.
YOU are the one who first mentioned headphones! Let me just remind you of this little gem of a quote: "pft headphones ain't speakers nor does that card come close to pushing out 100w per channel"



You have absolutely no clue.
Edited by Iceman23 - 5/18/11 at 12:07pm
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