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Setup with isolated airflow for radiators?

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Hello,

I am looking at purchasing a new case for my system. I am watercooling, and will soon be upgrading to use either two 120.4, or two 140.4 radiators.

Unfortunately, the choice for water cooling at the moment appears to be very limited in terms of the system chassis.

I have had a look at some of Case Labs' offerings, and there is potentially something that could be what I am looking for. There is plenty of space for radiators, but a requirement I have is that the airflow for the radiators is separated from the airflow in the main system compartment.

The best examples I can think of are that of the Silverstone Tek TJ-11/07 products, where the radiator sits in its own compartment, draws air from outside the case, and exhausts air straight out of the case. This avoids the situation of drawing hot air from in the case to cool the radiator, or exhausting hot air into the case (thereby negating one of the main benefits to water cooling). It also avoids the creation of a strong negative/positive air pressure differential in the system compartment.

Can any of the Case Labs' products be setup in this way, so that both quad radiators I plan to use can be isolated from the main system components?

I'd greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks,

Odai.
post #2 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number Six;13531941 
Hello,

I am looking at purchasing a new case for my system. I am watercooling, and will soon be upgrading to use either two 120.4, or two 140.4 radiators.

Unfortunately, the choice for water cooling at the moment appears to be very limited in terms of the system chassis.

I have had a look at some of Case Labs' offerings, and there is potentially something that could be what I am looking for. There is plenty of space for radiators, but a requirement I have is that the airflow for the radiators is separated from the airflow in the main system compartment.

The best examples I can think of are that of the Silverstone Tek TJ-11/07 products, where the radiator sits in its own compartment, draws air from outside the case, and exhausts air straight out of the case. This avoids the situation of drawing hot air from in the case to cool the radiator, or exhausting hot air into the case (thereby negating one of the main benefits to water cooling). It also avoids the creation of a strong negative/positive air pressure differential in the system compartment.

Can any of the Case Labs' products be setup in this way, so that both quad radiators I plan to use can be isolated from the main system components?

I'd greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks,

Odai.

A TH10 should fit the bill. Have all 4 front fans on the PSU side as intake for fresh air. Have a roof mounted 480 radiator exhausting air upwards. Purchase horizontal radiator mount bar to install a second 480 radiator inside the PSU bay. Have the ventilated side panel for that side of the case and you can now set the 480 radiator mounted on that side to exhaust air out the side panel.

And to complete the overkill you can set some of the available floorholes at the bottom as intake (depending on how long your PSU is).

All the air for the radiators would be on the PSU chamber side.

Another choice you have available is to purchase an the Pedestal that goes with that setup - and you can in this way have the radiators completely isolated within the pedestal. As Jim noted in another post he is working on a pedestal for the MH10/TH10, which should provide you an option if you would prefer.

Note you could probably also pull this off inside the shorter MH10 case as well but my honest suggestion would be to point you towards the TH10. Also it is possible that you could instead mount the radiator on the floor exhausting downward and use the horizontal mount bar to mount 4 fans that intake are as well. Several options on how to set it up but your idea is completely feasible inside the Case Labs cases biggrin.gif

smile.gif
Edited by werds - 5/16/11 at 8:24pm
    
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post #3 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number Six;13531941 
Hello,

I am looking at purchasing a new case for my system. I am watercooling, and will soon be upgrading to use either two 120.4, or two 140.4 radiators.

Unfortunately, the choice for water cooling at the moment appears to be very limited in terms of the system chassis.

I have had a look at some of Case Labs' offerings, and there is potentially something that could be what I am looking for. There is plenty of space for radiators, but a requirement I have is that the airflow for the radiators is separated from the airflow in the main system compartment.

The best examples I can think of are that of the Silverstone Tek TJ-11/07 products, where the radiator sits in its own compartment, draws air from outside the case, and exhausts air straight out of the case. This avoids the situation of drawing hot air from in the case to cool the radiator, or exhausting hot air into the case (thereby negating one of the main benefits to water cooling). It also avoids the creation of a strong negative/positive air pressure differential in the system compartment.

Can any of the Case Labs' products be setup in this way, so that both quad radiators I plan to use can be isolated from the main system components?

I'd greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks,

Odai.

Jumping in a little late here...

A TH10 would allow you to mount two 480's on the PSU side of the case and be reasonably isolated from the main system components, especially if you have enough intake on the MB side to keep it slightly pressurized. This is probably the most practical choice

The next step in isolation would be an MH10 on an extended pedestal (pricing not yet set). That would allow up to a pair of radiators (up to 560's) in a completely isolated compartment.

The next step would be the TX10 which would allow up to four 560's to be mounted in complete isolation. Of course, it has several more features as well wink.gif

Best regards
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post #4 of 10
BTW, although my build log has been silent lately I have been working on it (having several component issues not worth posting about lol)

But the past two days I have had it folding. I have qty 2 RX480 radiators and a total of 17 AP-15's running through a rheosmart 6 fan controller. Lets just say that even with all fans cranked at 100% it is not loud. The wife even commented on how much QUIETER the new system was than the previous one - she said "That's more than 50% quieter!"

Also when I sit at my desk I am now getting a slight cool breeze from the fans pushing air out thru the rads... that says alot that the air comes out slightly cool instead of hot while folding 24/7!
    
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post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Hello,

Thanks for your helpful responses. smile.gif

I was just about to respond to Werds' post when I refreshed the page and saw the Case Labs response. biggrin.gif
Quote:
A TH10 should fit the bill. Have all 4 front fans on the PSU side as intake for fresh air.

Why would this be necessary? As long as the intakes are clear, then that should be enough, right? Or would having intake fans actually make a difference to the airflow through the radiators? I will be using only slow speed fans (maybe 800-1400RPM).

One of the reasons I wanted to have isolated airflow for the radiators was to avoid the need for additional intake fans for the radiator. For example, in my Corsair 700D, I need additional intake fans to compensate for the fans on the radiator (set up as exhaust). More fans=more expense, more power, more noise. biggrin.gif

Whereas when I had the radiator mounted externally (or if I had it mounted in a Silverstone TJ11 for example), the fans on the radiator would suffice, as it was in open air and there was no need for additional fans to "feed" the radiator with air.
Quote:
Have a roof mounted 480 radiator exhausting air upwards. Purchase horizontal radiator mount bar to install a second 480 radiator inside the PSU bay. Have the ventilated side panel for that side of the case and you can now set the 480 radiator mounted on that side to exhaust air out the side panel.

I was wondering about the possibility of having a radiator on the front of the PSU chamber, and one on the side (only using one PSU anyway). Both as intake.

In this situation, I'm guessing the top of the case would have to have ventilation slots on the PSU chamber side to allow the hot air to exhaust?

The reason I was looking at this alternative, as opposed to your suggestion, is that the hot air exhausted through the radiator on the side would be warming up the PSU (as it would be sucked in again by the PSU intake fan).
Quote:
A TH10 would allow you to mount two 480's on the PSU side of the case and be reasonably isolated from the main system components, especially if you have enough intake on the MB side to keep it slightly pressurized. This is probably the most practical choice.

I'm wondering if it is actually feasible to keep the two compartments isolated. Isn't there a gap between the motherboard tray and the case frame? Also, the holes for cable/tubing management would let plenty of air through, right?
Quote:
The next step in isolation would be an MH10 on an extended pedestal (pricing not yet set). That would allow up to a pair of radiators (up to 560's) in a completely isolated compartment.

Is this the kind pedestal you are referring to?

cl_proto3_45.jpg

If you were to have two radiators installed in there, from where would the air intake be?
Quote:
The next step would be the TX10 which would allow up to four 560's to be mounted in complete isolation. Of course, it has several more features as well.

While it may well be the case that the TX10 is simply too large for my application, I'd be interested in seeing how you manage to get all the radiators isolated (which is not the situation with the other products). From what I understood previously, the TX10 was simply a beefed up version of the other cases, allowing for larger radiators. Guess I was wrong. biggrin.gif

Just to top off my rant with a quick question, from what I can see from your list of products, you have cases supporting 120.4 radiators and the TX10 supporting 140.4 radiators. Do you have anything (other than the TX10) that will allow mounting of a 140.3 radiator?

Thanks again!

Odai.
Edited by Number Six - 5/20/11 at 11:14am
post #6 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number Six;13575552 
Hello,

Why would this be necessary? As long as the intakes are clear, then that should be enough, right? Or would having intake fans actually make a difference to the airflow through the radiators? I will be using only slow speed fans (maybe 800-1400RPM).

Necessary, nope, but it would allow for all fans to operate optimally at low speeds. When I run my AP-15's at 900ish RPM they temperature difference from max speed 1850RPM is only 5 degrees at max because the extra intake fans make certain that I am constantly introducing fresh cool air - almost a forced induction you could say. So necessary? Nope but in my setup I am using it as a full time folding machine and wanted to keep the temps down so as not to turn my computer room into a sauna as my old rig used to spit out heat very fast. So far it is working perfectly. So your needs may vary compared to mines biggrin.gif
Quote:

One of the reasons I wanted to have isolated airflow for the radiators was to avoid the need for additional intake fans for the radiator. For example, in my Corsair 700D, I need additional intake fans to compensate for the fans on the radiator (set up as exhaust). More fans=more expense, more power, more noise. biggrin.gif

Whereas when I had the radiator mounted externally (or if I had it mounted in a Silverstone TJ11 for example), the fans on the radiator would suffice, as it was in open air and there was no need for additional fans to "feed" the radiator with air.

As mentioned previously - once I set them to 50% I really don't hear the fans and that is a feat considering the amount of fans I have going. The loudest items in my rig when they are at 50% are the pumps! And even at 100% it is far less noisy than my previous rig - part of it comes from being under my desk now but even when I put my head next to the case it is definitely a huge difference in noise level and quality.

Quote:

I was wondering about the possibility of having a radiator on the front of the PSU chamber, and one on the side (only using one PSU anyway). Both as intake.

In this situation, I'm guessing the top of the case would have to have ventilation slots on the PSU chamber side to allow the hot air to exhaust?

The top of the case comes with removable plates since that would be the rad mounting section - and one of the standard tops for the case has ventilated top as an option at no extra charge actually so that need would be taken care of. Because of clearance spaces front mounting a radiator would preclude either a top, bottom, or side mount of any radiator unless it was mounted on top using the extended top or on the floor using a smaller radiator than the one in front mounted position. To understand what I mean look at the recent pictures I posted regarding the horizontal radiator mount. *Edit* click the spoiler so you can see what I mean, the horizontal accessory mount gets in the way of mounting things in the front spaces or vice versa. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

mh10buildlightsareonbut.jpg

mh10buildlightsareonbut.jpg

I had to take out one of the front intake fans in order for it to mount properly. This would not be possible with a radiator mounted there.

Quote:

The reason I was looking at this alternative, as opposed to your suggestion, is that the hot air exhausted through the radiator on the side would be warming up the PSU (as it would be sucked in again by the PSU intake fan).

Actually this is easily resolved - turn the PSU so that the fan pulls air from within the chamber the same as the radiators are doing, this way it would not be pulling in warm exhaust and the psu would naturally exhaust warm air out back as well.
Quote:

I'm wondering if it is actually feasible to keep the two compartments isolated. Isn't there a gap between the motherboard tray and the case frame? Also, the holes for cable/tubing management would let plenty of air through, right?

If you create the proper airflow pressure on each side it would be easy to have a fairly isolated chamber - obviously it wouldn't be completely isolated but it could work imo. The holes may or may not let lots of air in depending on how much junk you jam in them wink.gif
Quote:

Is this the kind pedestal you are referring to?

cl_proto3_45.jpg

If you were to have two radiators installed in there, from where would the air intake be?

There are openings in the front and the back that can accept fan mount points - if you check out the Fire and Ice build log I think he shows closer up pictures of the pedestal.


Hope I helped more than confused! I am sure Jim is hitting you with all the pertinent info as well biggrin.gif
Edited by werds - 5/20/11 at 7:21pm
    
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post #7 of 10
I was going to try to do a fancy multi-multi quote and it quickly got out of hand tongue.gif

It is possible to keep the two chambers reasonably isolated by pressurization management and by restricting any unused cable management openings. Even without that, the two compartments do a far better job of heat management than one big open chamber. You would still need to have fans on the MB side regardless for optimum cooling. There is still heat coming off the components that needs to be flushed from the compartment.

You can achieve complete isolation by using the pedestal. The 15" width should allow you to use shrouds as well, further improving radiator efficiency while reducing noise. You could put intake fans on the 140mm mounts in back, but I'd skip it, as all they're likely to do is increase noise and impede incoming air.
cl_proto3_38.jpg

I wasn't really suggesting a TX10 as an alternative - more of an FYI for people reading this thread. In effect, it has a built-in "pedestal" at the top and bottom of the case. It's also 20" wide, so accommodating a pair 560's (even fully shrouded) in each compartment should not be a problem (OCN Disclaimer: Yes, I know it probably won't fit with dual push/pull 38's and 4" double shrouds - lol )

Best regards
Edited by Jim-CL - 5/21/11 at 6:55am
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post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
Thank you guys for taking the time to respond to my questions, much appreciated. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by werds 
Necessary, nope, but it would allow for all fans to operate optimally at low speeds. When I run my AP-15's at 900ish RPM they temperature difference from max speed 1850RPM is only 5 degrees at max because the extra intake fans make certain that I am constantly introducing fresh cool air - almost a forced induction you could say. So necessary? Nope but in my setup I am using it as a full time folding machine and wanted to keep the temps down so as not to turn my computer room into a sauna as my old rig used to spit out heat very fast. So far it is working perfectly. So your needs may vary compared to mines

That's interesting. Have you ever tried leaving the intakes empty at all, to see if there is any difference in airflow? So just having the radiator exhaust action sucking in air through the front.

I'm guessing the only problem with that would be the negative pressure sucking in air from everywhere (so through the gaps with the motherboard compartment for example), as opposed to just the intakes on the front of the PSU chamber side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Labs 
You can achieve complete isolation by using the pedestal. The 15" width should allow you to use shrouds as well, further improving radiator efficiency while reducing noise. You could put intake fans on the 140mm mounts in back, but I'd skip it, as all they're likely to do is increase noise and impede incoming air.

So is it a case of simply leaving the additional fan mounts empty once the radiators are mounted?

Referring back to my previous post, do any of Case Labs' offerings have compatibility for 140.3 radiators without an additional pedestal?

Thanks again!

Odai.
post #9 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number Six;13609159 
So is it a case of simply leaving the additional fan mounts empty once the radiators are mounted?

Pretty much. Of course you could finish it off with a grill of some sort to dress it up.
Quote:
Referring back to my previous post, do any of Case Labs' offerings have compatibility for 140.3 radiators without an additional pedestal?

Thanks again!

Odai.

We haven't done one yet (Oh boy! Another project... thinking.gif ), but a 140.3 could fit in the "H" series cases, no problem.

You're welcome! smile.gif
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post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number Six;13609159 
Thank you guys for taking the time to respond to my questions, much appreciated. biggrin.gif



That's interesting. Have you ever tried leaving the intakes empty at all, to see if there is any difference in airflow? So just having the radiator exhaust action sucking in air through the front.

I'm guessing the only problem with that would be the negative pressure sucking in air from everywhere (so through the gaps with the motherboard compartment for example), as opposed to just the intakes on the front of the PSU chamber side.


Nope haven't tried it simply because of the reason you gave smile.gif I prefer being able to control where the dust seeps in from as I have a wife, toddler, and a dog in the house - with carpet and no one is a neat freak! BUt just for the sake of curiosity I turned off all the fans except the radiator fans using my fan controller. Will have to get back to you on the actual results as I shut down the folding earlier this afternoon in order to get a good baseline of temperature deltas. BUt within the first 5 minutes I can see a 2 degree difference (where as it is currently 2 degrees higher than the average it has output over the last 5 days). Obviously that is too small a sample size but I will come back with the information difference later. One thing I will note is that the sound is not really reduced too much having turned off all the extra fans- it actually has a more hollow sound to it now.

But I'll shoot back in tomorrow or a day or two down to give you a better update on it as I just picked up another bigadv WU to work on and that should get the system heated up pretty good after a day or two of running smile.gif
    
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Overclock.net › Forums › Hardware Vendors › Case Labs › Setup with isolated airflow for radiators?