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msi 6950 twin frozr II or reference design 6950 - Page 2

post #11 of 36
Reference cooler exhausts roughly 90% of air outside. 10% is routed inside due to position of the dvi ports, no place to go but back into case.


That aside, reference AMD cards are my preference, and imo the best for coolers, best for watercooling, etc.
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post #12 of 36
MSI Twin Froz II overclocks higher.Better card all around end of story.

http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=1287
Edited by PureOC Jim - 6/19/11 at 1:21pm
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post #13 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureOC Jim View Post
MSI Twin Froz II overclocks higher.Better card all around end of story.

http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=1287
there isn't any comparison in that review of MSI's version and the reference model scores at stock, let alone overclocked. there is one halfhearted comparison between msi's numbers at stock and unlocked at the end, with no reference to the clocks it's running. it also doesn't say what the reference models fan profile was set to, or give a comparison of case temps.

i love MSI, but that is quite obviously a fanboy review and a very poor reference to the actual difference between a reference model and MSI's TF version.


sidenote: lol @ "impressive factory overclock of 850/1300MHz"
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post #14 of 36
Thread Starter 
hey guys,

thanks for all the replies, I couldnt answer them till now (1 week to the provence in southern france with my class and one week full of tests), but now its summer break and i cant wait for bulldozer, which, again, has been delayed to august-september. *sigh*

The thing is, i still cant decide between a reference card or a TFIII one. Here in the netherlands there are plenty of shops selling the reference for ~210 euros, and the TFIII sells for around 250-270 (both + 10 euros shipping), and most reference 6970's sell for 280, so isnt the TFIII a waste of money then?

Also, one of you claimed that a reference sheders only unlock + oc to 920 > TFIII oc'ed to ~1ghz, does anyone have any proof? (posting a link or pm'ing me would be nice)

Thirdly, if i decide to go with a 6950 TFIII, I might aswell get a reference 6970 for 20 euros extra. How would a overclocked 6970 perform compared to an overclocked 6950 TFIII?

EDIT: unlocking the TFIII is probably not going to happen, as i've read no successes in this and the newer badges of chips have been laser cut. unlocking an reference is almost certain, no doubt.

Thanks in advance.
Edited by Arthedes - 6/29/11 at 11:02am
post #15 of 36
You can't go wrong with the reference 6950. IMO, both TFIII and any 6970 are a waste of money.
post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 
yeah but what performs better? unlocked reference + oc to 900~950 or oc TFIII to ~1ghz. if so, how much better. And where can i find proof, cuz i cant seem to find anyone who has tested this on the same system before.

thx in adv.
post #17 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat View Post
there isn't any comparison in that review of MSI's version and the reference model scores at stock, let alone overclocked. there is one halfhearted comparison between msi's numbers at stock and unlocked at the end, with no reference to the clocks it's running. it also doesn't say what the reference models fan profile was set to, or give a comparison of case temps.

i love MSI, but that is quite obviously a fanboy review and a very poor reference to the actual difference between a reference model and MSI's TF version.


sidenote: lol @ "impressive factory overclock of 850/1300MHz"
Indeed and i cant seem to find a good review comparing the reference w/ shaders unlocked and oc'ed and the TFIII overclocked.

I have found on the internets that the unlock shaders only is a 3-6% increase in performance. I also found that SOME people managed to get a stable overclock on their reference cards @ 1ghz or close to it. I haven't found any people ocing their TFIII's much higher then 1ghz (maybe 1040 mhz)

So would it mean that a reference w/unlocked shaders and overclocked to say 960 mhz would be better than a TFIII oc'ed to 1ghz?

of course the tems will be higher and the fan will be louder on the reference but i dont really care 'bout that.
post #18 of 36
TF 3 cooling is fab -- was using an AC accelero S1 rev 2 on my old 6850 w/ the VRM001 Heatsinks .. but managed ~ 80C overclocked on it w/ Vcore -- 1.25

WELL , what do we have here-- the TF3 w/ 1.24Vcore and clocks 950/1450 7 HOURS OCCT -- ambients 25C maxed 74C !!! Thats WITH power control on +20% !!

Thus no throttling-- the fan was on auto and INAUDIBLE over the R4's in my cabinet!!

Am absolutely NOT going to change the cooler on this one.. It's much better than the TF2 ..

However , AN OLD TF2 can unlock -- don't hold me on this , but u'll get rich IF u can unlock AND OC it ...
but at the end-- OC'ing is a LOT MORE benificial -- no void warranties-- no flashing.. whaat funn!!
Check out guru3d's review of the TF3 , its money well spent!

Also, I'm sure the TF3 DOESN'T have a dual bios.. this gets us nowhere--

Still , if u want to be wise , do what I'm about to do with my card ! If not for the extra shaders, then for the OC margin!

Then read THIS , stating that the newer batch simply will not unlock -- and I have a June production unit ! Well, sadness- BUT I WILL flash the bios SIMPLY to bypass some stupid power control restrictions which in the current 11.6 CCC resets once a day +___+

AND IMO , the TF3 beats the direct cu :/ Just cause the TF 3 is nickel plated... :/ AND direct CU is HDT tech , not suited for a small gpu core-- it shall result in a big variation in the temp in diff parts of the gpu core-- open up GPU -z and the 6850 I once had used to vary 15+C in the gpu temps #1,#3 .. despite re-seating..
Changed the cooler to a non -direct CU and and the variation dipped to ~ 5C on full load...

"So would it mean that a reference w/unlocked shaders and overclocked to say 960 mhz would be better than a TFIII oc'ed to 1ghz?"

WELL< no!>
if u look at the ratio ---unlocked shaders to locked shaders ~ 5% difference.. also the 6970 uses different power on its parts-- ESP on custom layouts like the TF3 , so stick to a higher OC. so happening-- am gonna push mine to 1GHz today- my card is a day old!! And its doing 950/1450 at 1.235Vcore...
ALSO , the TF3 has triple OC -- yet to see the effect of OC'ing the PLL , but the Vmem definitely gave me an extra 50MHz on the Vram!!
No kidding, the TF3 is a simple substitute ,and slightly cheaper, for a stock 6970-- they perform similarly on an OC -- OC'ing with those extra shaders =fail .. those shaders were disabled for a reason -- maybe those select shaders will hold back your OC when you unlock ... so simply SUPER OC the good stock shaders??
Also , MSI > Asus, atleast where I live--- I BROKE MY 6850__ BROKE--- then had to remove the custom heatsink and the thermal epoxy and all-- definitely showed that I had modded the card-- and I still got a credit note and simply upgraded to a 6950 -- the best card in the market right now-- price/performance wise..
Sum1 tell me how wrong I am .. I have a tendency to ramble!
post #19 of 36
Oh, and crap news---good luck finding an 'old' production stock reference unit in the market- - IF BY SOME LUCK , you do manage, then modding it and swapping out the cooler is so not worth it !

AND IMHO- u're paying for a cooler ( HS) on a reference card anyway 0-0 then you'd want to unlock AND OC !! that means a new cooler is in the contention! Well, why pay for 2 coolers at the end of the day?? pay once, no hassle, no effort- and be content! The TF3 manages ~ similar performance to an accelro from AC , and better than the S1 , I would know!
May I mention that the fans are inaudible below 70% .. and then they sound a lot like my AC as in air conditioner ,not arctic cooling imagine a low powered delta... but the fans have serious CFM!!
Edited by 0razor1 - 7/1/11 at 8:23am
post #20 of 36
Thread Starter 
sure the overclocking headroom of the 6950 TFIII is greater than that of the reference, but i've read people get it to 1ghz! the voltage is prolly 1.275 then it it'll run in the high 70's mid 80's and the fan will be a bit louder than that of a TFIII @ 1ghz but i dont care about that. (for daily use 85C max is ok, right? U'll be safe under 90C for daily use and 100C is max right?) my case will have 3 fans + ill oc the **** out of my Bulldozer with a nice heatsink on it and prolly 2 fans in a push-pull configuration, so the GPU may not even be noticeable, and if it is, so what.

Lets say i only can oc it to 950mhz stable w/ 1.275 V and dont want to get a higher voltage. its still an oc of 150mhz + unlocking it will gain me another 3-5% performance, so the performance difference will be almost equal to that of an TFIII @1ghz, but then it costed me only 220 euro's instead of 260.

Also, in the future i might add a second 6950 and crossfire em (or i could get a 7000 series and sell my 6950, but i'll have to see first how it performs), and then the TFIII's will run alot hotter, because theyre sucking up eachother's heat. the reference desing cards dump almost all of the heat outside the case, thus having lower temps ultimately

please correct me if i'm wrong
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