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LED or 120Hz monitor ??? - Page 11

post #101 of 252
120hz for sure. Much better for games, especially if you got a powerful rig that gets around 100 fps.
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post #102 of 252
Woot i own 2 top 7 120 hz monitors One i got now has good blacks and whits and led. colors is not as good as plasma but plasma is about the best you can get anyhow , the lg w2363d veiwing angles not the best but i dont move in games anyhow well for track ir i do but still dose good with that. i did not go to leds becase crt where so much faster no input delay, this moitor is great. still i can see it not as smooth but thats to 240hz smile.gif and 680gtx smile.gif
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post #103 of 252
Samsung Samsung SyncMaster 2233rz vs ViewSonic VX2268wm

36_452_101.jpg41_594_101.jpg

Acer GN245HQ vs LG Flatron W2363D
38_847_101.jpg35_664_101.jpg

Anyone want to see any others?
post #104 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by GfhTattoo;13604168 
Woot i own 2 top 7 120 hz monitors One i got now has good blacks and whits and led. colors is not as good as plasma but plasma is about the best you can get anyhow , the lg w2363d veiwing angles not the best but i dont move in games anyhow well for track ir i do but still dose good with that. i did not go to leds becase crt where so much faster no input delay, this moitor is great. still i can see it not as smooth but thats to 240hz smile.gif and 680gtx smile.gif

Input lag vs CRT

An input lag of 16.7 ms is equivalent to one frame in a game, 33 ms is two frames and so on. The graph on the right represents the stability of this delay.

Samsung SyncMaster 2233rz
36_452_112.png

LG Flatron W2363D
35_664_112.png

Acer GN245HQ
38_847_112.png

Asus VG236H
150_742_112.png
Edited by Spooony - 5/22/11 at 11:51pm
post #105 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony;13604059 
Input lag happens when vsync drop the frame rate half the refresh rate.

Wrong. Input lag happens whenever you are trying to sync anything, because when you do so something must wait for the other part, and here you place frames on a buffer when you wait for the screen to end.

So, be it more or less, vsync always introduces input lag. Doesn't matter if you feel or not, thats out of the question, but the fact that it does.
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post #106 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava;13609175 
Wrong. Input lag happens whenever you are trying to sync anything, because when you do so something must wait for the other part, and here you place frames on a buffer when you wait for the screen to end.

So, be it more or less, vsync always introduces input lag. Doesn't matter if you feel or not, thats out of the question, but the fact that it does.

vsync and tripple buffering is two different things! Why do the people always talk about vsync when I said tripple buffering?
Vsync just let the gpu know of your monitors limitation. If the two buffers are full and its waiting for the LCD what's going to happen?
Do not blame a monitor for input lag. Yes it does have a bit of input lag but its not noticeable. Its part of a graphics stage which starts at your hdd and ends at the monitor. You are blaming the monitor for the end result. The code doesn't have to sync with the framerate, a physics' thread could be running at 360Hz, the control thread at 60Hz and rendering at 30Hz. A game of 30fps got more lag than a one at 60fps. So tell me if a LCD ain't fast enough why does it have more lag at a low frame rate?
Edited by Spooony - 5/23/11 at 7:17pm
post #107 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony;13613579 
vsync and tripple buffering is two different things! Why do the people always talk about vsync when I said tripple buffering?
Vsync just let the gpu know of your monitors limitation. If the two buffers are full and its waiting for the LCD what's going to happen?
Do not blame a monitor for input lag. Yes it does have a bit of input lag but its not noticeable. Its part of a graphics stage which starts at your hdd and ends at the monitor. You are blaming the monitor for the end result. The code doesn't have to sync with the framerate, a physics' thread could be running at 360Hz, the control thread at 60Hz and rendering at 30Hz. A game of 30fps got more lag than a one at 60fps. So tell me if a LCD ain't fast enough why does it have more lag at a low frame rate?

Because all LCD monitors have input lag. Period. That is added on top of the lag created by low FPS. This happens outside of games as well, and can be measured by having the same image displayed on a LCD and a CRT side by side, running a millisecond precise counter, and then taking a picture of the thing on a camera with a fast shutter speed. This way, we can see that the LCD is falling behind the CRT by usually 10-30ms.


An LCD monitor can get undelayed, very high FPS footage from the GPU, but it will still have the inherent input lag caused by the control chip and its processing within the display.

Of course, these days the input lag is almost not even noticiable. Only in quake and such.
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post #108 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooony;13613579 
vsync and tripple buffering is two different things! Why do the people always talk about vsync when I said tripple buffering?
Vsync just let the gpu know of your monitors limitation. If the two buffers are full and its waiting for the LCD what's going to happen?
Do not blame a monitor for input lag. Yes it does have a bit of input lag but its not noticeable. Its part of a graphics stage which starts at your hdd and ends at the monitor. You are blaming the monitor for the end result. The code doesn't have to sync with the framerate, a physics' thread could be running at 360Hz, the control thread at 60Hz and rendering at 30Hz. A game of 30fps got more lag than a one at 60fps. So tell me if a LCD ain't fast enough why does it have more lag at a low frame rate?

Input lag comes from a ton of places, but it stacks. Vsync on top of everything else means a crap load of input lag.

And yes, the same applies for triple-buffering: everything that buffers stuff ads lag.

Also, with vsync obviously a game has more lag @ 30fps than @ 60, for the simple reason that you got the same number of frames buffered...but @ 30fps they are twice as long. No wonder it feels more laggy...because you do have more lag.


Quote:
Originally Posted by De-Zant;13618039 
and can be measured by having the same image displayed on a LCD and a CRT side by side, running a millisecond precise counter, and then taking a picture of the thing on a camera with a fast shutter speed. This way, we can see that the LCD is falling behind the CRT by usually 10-30ms.

That ain't correct. If you would be able to shoot to a monitor fast enough, you would see that any counter you watch would work in 16ms jumps (more or less), because it updates at such frequency.

So, if could happen that you would be comparing side by side a CRT and an LCD and got mixed up results: unless both screens were prepared to update at the very same moment, you could shoot at the moment in which CRT had just updated 1ms ago but TFT was about to start: result, 20ms of fake input lag.

Thats why It ain't easy to measure everything. and why most result should be disregarded.
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post #109 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava;13618177 
That ain't correct. If you would be able to shoot to a monitor fast enough, you would see that any counter you watch would work in 16ms jumps (more or less), because it updates at such frequency.

So, if could happen that you would be comparing side by side a CRT and an LCD and got mixed up results: unless both screens were prepared to update at the very same moment, you could shoot at the moment in which CRT had just updated 1ms ago but TFT was about to start: result, 20ms of fake input lag.

Thats why It ain't easy to measure everything. and why most result should be disregarded.

Good though, but I think that it might not matter in the long run, if you take a lot of pictures.

Set the CRT to the highest hz it can get, LCD at the highest it can get., take a LOT of pictures. Input lag should be roughly the lowest difference between the two, since the two refresh rates are not in sync, and the camera should eventually capture a picture of the two so that the LCD is ahead of the CRT, or at least tied to. However, the LCD will rarely go past the CRT in these tests. That's because 15ms of input lag is the most common number, and the majority of displays don't go below that.


This is a home test of course. I wonder what the reviews use.
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post #110 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava;13618177 
Input lag comes from a ton of places, but it stacks. Vsync on top of everything else means a crap load of input lag.

And yes, the same applies for triple-buffering: everything that buffers stuff ads lag.

Also, with vsync obviously a game has more lag @ 30fps than @ 60, for the simple reason that you got the same number of frames buffered...but @ 30fps they are twice as long. No wonder it feels more laggy...because you do have more lag.

Yeah.. V-sync causes no noticeable input lag as long as you can maintain 60fps. My sig-rig has no noticeable lag what-so-ever. I've never used a more responsive machine.
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