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Why does AMD go cheaper more over time than Intel? - Page 6

post #51 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
The 955 released at $245, I think its fair to compare it to a $220 CPU. Its also not my fault AMD brought out Phenom II and priced it at $245 when it was clear it wasn't even close to the performance level of the core i series processors that had already been out since 2008. I'd like to know how you came to the conclusion Phenom II was meant to compete with C2Qs when Phenom IIs came out after even the core I series came out, which was after yorkfield, which is more to the point of why is AMD so slow to develop new chips that can actually compete but feels the need to release new chips at prices they don't warrant?

Intel doesn't reduce their pricing because by the time their chips become outdated its because they've already released a new design to replace the old one at the same price points.

The point of this thread is why does AMD release chips at over-priced levels because they're new, then quickly drop the pricing on them as they fail to match up with the competition.

Why would I use the same core speeds for comparing two different architectures when one clearly has a clock speed advantage? That makes absolutely no sense. When I compare my SB chip to a Pent 3 do I do it at 800Mhz with 3 cores disabled? lol.

My comparison was spot on.



Those don't look like wheels for turnin.

Your i5 is the reason Phenom II x4 was so cheap, after they priced their new chips at outrageous pricing, Intel came out with 1156 (i5 at $200~) which sent AMD down below the $200 mark since their quad couldn't compete with the 1156 platform that came out after 1366. They then released the 1090T and the X6 lineup with outrageous pricing once again, hitting the $300 price point and by the time SB came out (yet another new design) the 1090T had dropped 30% off its release price.

Intel sets the market, AMD tries to fill in where it can.
The Q9550 was released at $280, so it only makes sense to compare it to the $300 i7 2600. Oh, wait. No, it doesn't. You don't compare things simply based on their launch price when the current price is different or when the product has been discontinued.

And the Phenom II was meant to compete with Core 2 Quad based on the CPU price and platform price. And you can see in any review for the Phenom II X4 940 it being compared against the Core 2 Quad Q9400, as it was its main competitor. Now stop bowing down to Intel.

And again, if you want to compare architectures directly, use IPC.
    
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post #52 of 88


It does if your budget is $300 and you bought a C2Q a year before Phenom II was released and are looking to upgrade then the i7-2600k is the chip you'd compare yours to since they're around the same price point.

I hope that helps.

IPC is a horrible way to compare anything, why are you trying to use that archaic argument when its been dead for 10 years?

I'm also not bowing down to Intel, I don't like the fact that the Q9550 is pretty much the same price now as it was when it was released, but thats how Intel does it. Instead of reducing the price from $250 to $100 on their Phenom II 955 type processor they just release new chips instead at the same price point.

I don't take sides, perhaps you shouldn't either. At least then you'd see the difference between running the same old tired arch for years upon years while refreshing and reducing costs only to continually return to the same price points with a refresh that doesn't warrant the cost vs keeping legacy pricing is that one company is producing new designs and pushing the performance envelope, while the other is trying to squeeze every dime they can out of the same R&D they did eight years ago. My price/needs decide which chip I buy, not the logo on the box.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 5/22/11 at 10:45am
    
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post #53 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Amazon.com: Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q9550 2.83GHz 1333MHz 12 MB LGA775 EM64T CPU BX80569Q9550: Electronics


It does if your budget is $300 and you bought a C2Q a year before Phenom II was released and are looking to upgrade then the i7-2600k is the chip you'd compare yours to since they're around the same price point.

I hope that helps.

IPC is a horrible way to compare anything, why are you trying to use that archaic argument when its been dead for 10 years?

I'm also not bowing down to Intel, I don't like the fact that the Q9550 is pretty much the same price now as it was when it was released, but thats how Intel does it. Instead of reducing the price from $250 to $100 on their Phenom II 955 type processor they just release new chips instead at the same price point.

I don't take sides, perhaps you shouldn't either. At least then you'd see the difference between running the same old tired arch for years upon years while refreshing and reducing costs only to continually return to the same price points with a refresh that doesn't warrant the cost vs keeping legacy pricing is that one company is producing new designs and pushing the performance envelope, while the only is trying to squeeze every dime they can out of the same R&D they did eight years ago. My price/needs decide which chip I buy, not the logo on the box.
And here you just prove your ignorance... yet again. IPC is the only way to accurately compare the performance/speed differences between two architectures. If you're comparing a chip at 4GHz to one at 5GHz to show architectural differences, you're doing it wrong. And you're the one taking sides, not me. At least I can admit that I'm unbiased and can see that right now AMD offers the best performance >$150 and Intel offers the best after that while you keep praising Intel and bashing AMD any chance you get.
    
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post #54 of 88
Why so much wall of text spamming BallaTheFeared & LOL_Wut_Axe ?!
It s hilarious .
It s good you re not quoting each thread poster to use one page per reply.
You are behaving again like 2 Intel fan-boys and it s sad.

BallaTheFeared ,i would of expected more of you.
   
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post #55 of 88
Yeah you're right, IPC is the only way to compare chips. Not actual real performance numbers from real people, doing real overclocking.

No thats illogical and I'm totally ignorant of why IPC is dead in every realm of comparison and has been since 2002, but for you.

I'm not praising Intel in anyway, point me to the post where I pander to Intel and also point out the one where I said something incorrect "bashed" about AMD.

You also can't make broad statements like at $150 and below AMD wins, and at $151 and above Intel wins, because each user has different needs and because of that there are benefits and downsides to both sides.
    
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post #56 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Yeah you're right, IPC is the only way to compare chips. Not actual real performance numbers from real people, doing real overclocking.

No thats illogical and I'm totally ignorant of why IPC is dead in every realm of comparison and has been since 2002, but for you.

I'm not praising Intel in anyway, point me to the post where I pander to Intel and also point out the one where I said something incorrect "bashed" about AMD.

You also can't make broad statements like at $150 and below AMD wins, and at $151 and above Intel wins, because each user has different needs and because of that there are benefits and downsides to both sides.
I never said it was not a way to compare. I just said that it wasn't a way to compare architectural differences. Learn to read and to do less quote mining.

And your statement regarding each user and what not is just... *sigh*
The Phenom II X4 955 will be overall faster than the Core i3 2100, especially since you can over-clock.
    
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post #57 of 88
Hmmm.... This thread is going no where now
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post #58 of 88
Clock speeds, heat output, power usage, voltage, NB, all these things are part of an "architecture" yet you chose to leave them out and attempt to try to do clock vs clock which doesn't even show the difference between them since one clocks higher than the other.

Are you sure about that last comment? Because I'm pretty sure you're mistaken. However since you continue to drive this thread OT and provide absolutely no backup for anything you've said and use semantics for your bases of arguing I will stop responding to you now since I've actually attempted to answer the OP and you've attempted to call it bashing.

But before I go I'll post this for you to consider.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/88?vs=289

Also since you were unaware the i3-2100 will overclock to 3.5Ghz with turbo, which is a x35 multi and with some fsb you could reach about 3.7Ghz on it. It seems to me they trade off in several areas. However if you can show me the AMD cpu for around $200 that can compete with my i5, my hat off to you.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 5/22/11 at 11:24am
    
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post #59 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomfix View Post
Hmmm.... This thread is going no where now
Yep, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Actually the point I was attempting to make was that slow and slower comes from a perspective.

In hindsight I may have given the AMD a bit too much credit since the 2011 Ford Mustang puts up some decent numbers.

When I said it I was coming from the idea that the top end for a F1 car is about 230 MPH, the top in for the Mustang is around 170 MPH. Then my comment was that while the ford would be considered fast by a lot of people it wouldn't be considered fast at all by a F1 driver. Which was going towards the fact that I've owned several Phenom II chips and a i5-2500k so I had the perspective of a F1 driver.

IPC isn't a good way to look at anything, its been around forever however you don't see any review sites using it do you? The reason is because its a poor way to evaluate performance.

I guess you're also forgetting that AMD hasn't had a truly "new" design in about eight years.

Edit:

Is it slow?



VS.



If we're using the latter as a baseline, then yes, its slow.
Balla, the other dude ('LOLWutAxel') has a point, benchmarking does not equal real-world performance unless you do 3D rendering or something, at which point price (and AMD CPUs) are irrelevant, but for normal use like gaming, current games can barely tell the difference between a Sandy Bridge and a Barcelona (Phenom I) processor, they barely started to use quad cores properly and Phenom II quads are still viable. Not for many reasons, but they're still viable. For example, I can slap a 955 Phenom in an AM3+ board, wait for the latest and greatest 12 core Bulldozer chip and can upgrade without throwing out the motherboard in the process. Quad cores are the new dual cores for games, so even old Core 2 and Phenom I chips will still be useable for multithreaded games for a while.
Edited by Am* - 5/22/11 at 11:27am
    
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post #60 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Clock speeds, heat output, power usage, voltage, NB, all these things are part of an "architecture" yet you chose to leave them out and attempt to try to do clock vs clock which doesn't even show the difference between them since one clocks higher than the other.

Are you sure about that last comment? Because I'm pretty sure you're mistaken. However since you continue to drive this thread OT and provide absolutely no backup for anything you've said and use semantics for your bases of arguing I will stop responding to you now since I've actually attempted to answer the OP and you've attempted to call it bashing.

But before I go I'll post this for you to consider.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/88?vs=289

Also since you were unaware the i3-2100 will overclock to 3.5Ghz with turbo, which is a x35 multi and with some fsb you could reach about 3.7Ghz on it. It seems to me they trade off in several areas. However if you can show me the AMD cpu for around $200 that can compete with my i5, my hat off to you.
The Core i3 doesn't have turbo.

And that link only proves what I said: that the Phenom II X4 955 is faster in most multi-threaded applications, the ones that actually take time to complete. Also, I never talked about heat output and power consumption. I talked about performance. Now you try and bring that up as a scapegoat.

    
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